Peggy Noonan on Imigration
 

Read this Peggy Noonan column a minute ago. Curious as to the 2+2 "elites" opinion. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

~ Rick

Re: Peggy Noonan on Imigration
 

The non-sequitur queen at it again. Typically without a shred of evidence, Noonan contends that today's anti-immigrant zealots are a new breed concerned primarily with abstract rule-of-law issues instead of the fears and prejudices that have driven their movement for the last 150 years. Policy makers who fail to recognize this truism are therefore "unknowing and empty-headed."

Nearly every GOP pundit that opines on immigration fails to mention the obvious: illegal immigration is GOP policy. "Illegal" immigrants come here because they are aided and abetted by highly visible employers who give them jobs. If the U.S. didn't want the immigrants to come, they'd tax or punish the employers to the point where the jobs are no longer economical to provide. The GOP doesn't do this because immigrants help more than hurt and the GOP isn't in the business of screwing small employers. We could rationalize the policy with the sort of guest worker programs they have in other rich countries, but racism and xenophobia make it politically infeasible. The GOP trick is to capitalize on the hatred without having to hurt the employers. Peggy Noonan's insinuations that current immigrants are more often cynical lawbreakers now than at any time in the past is just another speech insert for GOP demagogues. After all, it's her job.

Re: Peggy Noonan on Imigration
 

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The problem with our elites as they make our immigration policy is not that they have compassion and open-mindedness. It is that they are unknowing and empty-headed. They don't know, most of them, what others had to earn, and how much they, and their descendents, prize it and want to protect it.

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I like Peggy Noonan, and I liked the article. The questions raised are good, and belong in the debate. Her conclusion, if what I quoted above is her conclusion, is poorly thought out. "The problem with our elites ..." is not compassion, open-mindedness, knowing or not knowing -- it's a system they've designed that they feel only applies to others (ergo, 'elite').

I'm reminded of Bill Clinton trying to find someone in Washington who didn't have a 'Zoe Baird' problem -- if all immigrants were legal, and the elite followed the rules they impose on others, there wouldn't have been a problem.

"The problem with our elites as they make our immigration policy is ... " -- that they feel they are elite.

Re: Peggy Noonan on Imigration
 

First, it troubles me that my good friend spends his morning reading Peggy Noonan. Be that as it may . . .

Another disgusting piece from Ms. Noonan. Two lines, in particular, struck me:

1) "There are groups that seek to restore border integrity. But they are denigrated by many, even the president, who has called them vigilantes."

-The President did not denigrate "groups" that seek to restore border integrity. He denigrated the Minutemen after some of their members' racist statements were publicized in the media. As you know, I am not exactly the president's biggest fan, but his characterization was accurate and apt.

"The problem with our elites as they make our immigration policy is not that they have compassion and open-mindedness. It is that they are unknowing and empty-headed. They don't know, most of them, what others had to earn, and how much they, and their descendents, prize it and want to protect it."

-Ms. Noonan wants it both ways. When the administration's policy is not to her liking, it's an unknowing and empty-headed policy. Yet somehow the administration is brilliant in, for example, fighting the war on terror. Ms. Noonan seems to think she knows better because one of her relatives slept on a park bench in 1920. How arrogant can one be?

Re: Peggy Noonan on Imigration
 

Noonan's article aside, there does seem to be something of a disconnect between Americans' views of illegal immigration and policy and enforcement of the same. I recall reading of polls that show most Americans are opposed to illegal immigration and want it to be stopped (or at least seriously curtailed). Our legislators and administrators however seem unwilling and/or unable to uphold the overall will of the people in this regard. Of course there are various reasons for this, and it's a very complex scenario--but I can also see a reason why some in government are referred to as "elites."

Re: Peggy Noonan on Imigration
 

Chris Alger's post got, I think, to the crux of the issue: while the Republicans have been in control of our government, and one would think that, ideologically, they would be tough on illegal immigration, they haven't dealt with it because their base relies on illegal immigrants for cheap labor.

Of course the government is comprised of "elites." That's who it's run by and for, that's who the laws are written for. But just to call them "elites" is not terribly useful. Noonan mentioned Yale in her article. Both of the presidential candidate in the last election went there. But are they the same commodity politically?

Re: Peggy Noonan on Imigration
 

Yes, I agree that calling "them" "elites" is not terribly useful.

I suspect there is some pandering by both Dem and Repub legislators in various forms on this issue.

Re: Peggy Noonan on Imigration
 

"I suspect there is some pandering by both Dem and Repub legislators in various forms on this issue."

Suspect? [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Focus on Elite
 

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Yes, I agree that calling "them" "elites" is not terribly useful.

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It's not meant to be useful -- it's meant to be insightful. I suspect Repub legislators follow rules they disagree with better than Dems follow rules they write.

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I suspect there is some pandering by both Dem and Repub legislators in various forms on this issue.

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While campaigning is often confused with pandering -- the New Media supported by Nexus/Lexus has done a great job of exposing duplicity. Unfortunately, exposure of duplicitous positions has not (yet) forced decision -- since the 'elite' haven't yet concluded if that information is reaching their voters.

Re: Peggy Noonan on Imigration
 

[ QUOTE ]
Chris Alger's post got, I think, to the crux of the issue: while the Republicans have been in control of our government, and one would think that, ideologically, they would be tough on illegal immigration, they haven't dealt with it because their base relies on illegal immigrants for cheap labor.


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Are you sure that it's this and not the potential to win the Hispanic vote? I'd certainly say that this is the primary reason the GOP hasn't met expectations with regards to harder lines in immigration policy.