Wreckless or justfied move?
 

Its late in the Party Poker 5,000 guaranteed freeroll tourney and I am already well into the money. There are currently 12 players left and I am sitting in middle to later chip position with 170,000 or so and $60 guaranteed with the money steadily going up after 10th place. Blinds are 15 and 30 thousand and I am in the small blind. Side Note: I have already set my sights on the top 3 places and told myself that I am going to play to win the whole thing. There are 6 at my table and everyone seems to be playing to make sure they finish top 10. It is folded around to me (small blind) and I have K8o. The table has been very tight obviously and I don't know a whole lot about the player in the Big Blind who has me covered by 50,000 or so. I figure that I probably have the best hand and that even if he does have a slightly better hand (K10,Ace rag, etc) he will most likely fold. The blinds are clearly big enough to be worth stealing and my table image has been pretty tight (I've only gone all in with very strong hands). I push all in and he mulls it over for 15 seconds or so and calls. I'll post results later after a few responses. What do you think- honest advice? I thought about folding for quite awhile but concluded that I probably had the best hand and that i needed to boost my stack. Wreckless or justified? Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Re: Wreckless or justfied move?
 

In the situation you described, with the blinds that big and you have a tight table image, you have to push this in my opinion. Its not even a close decision for me.

Re: Wreckless or justfied move?
 

As I said before he thought it over for 15 seconds and called with A9s. Neither of us hit any of our cards and he knocked me out. Thinking back on it I knew I was risking everything with only an above average hand but I don't know if I could have forgiven myself for folding when the range of hands he could of called with was so small. Any more responses would be greatly appreciated.

Re: Wreckless or justfied move?
 

Easy push,

Re: Wreckless or justfied move?
 

So, folded around to you in the SB, you have an effective M of around 2, you push.

To me in the BB, you would do that with any 2, I call with almost any 2, 9 or higher. Tight image or no.

The only thing that would give me pause would be if you had folded your SB before in that situation, then I might give you credit for a reasonable hand, and fold a hand such as you described "(K10,Ace rag, etc)"

A better move would be a stop n' go, with a slight delay before you push any non-A flop. (to make it look like you hadn't already decided to push any non-A flop) At least, you've maximized your FE.

Assuming A9 lets you see a flop...

I'd probably fold, wait 2 hands and then push any 2, a) you will have reinforced your "tight" table image recently enough that they might remember b) you won't be challenging the BB of a stack that knocks you out.

FWIW

Regards

Gar

Re: Wreckless or justfied move?
 

Acccording to the votes, 42% would say fold.

This is hard for me to believe. Hero has just over 5BB, and K8o is an above average hand. He needs chips, this is no time to "wait for a better spot".

IMO, this is the better spot.

Anyway, for those 42% that say fold, please explain your reasoning...maybe I am missing something.

Regards,

Pulp

Edit: just saw gars response.

Re: Wreckless or justfied move?
 

[ QUOTE ]
To me in the BB, you would do that with any 2, I call with almost any 2, 9 or higher. Tight image or no.


[/ QUOTE ]

Another reason to push with Kx.

Re: Wreckless or justfied move?
 

Seems like an easy push- I'd be interested to hear from the almost 50% of the crowd that said fold (at least when I posted)

Re: Wreckless or justfied move?
 

I think the main reason why people are suggesting a fold here is the chip stack of the big blind. His chip stack is only slightly larger than our hero's & BB has to make a move soon as well. Also k8o while a reasonanle hand, is not a powerhouse. We have no real straight or flush possibilities with it. In the end I would probably lean towards folding at this point, but can definitely understand hero's all-in move
at this juncture.

Re: Wreckless or justfied move?
 

1. You're a favorite over a random hand.
2. While you're AVG-Above AVG stacked, the blinds are so big you have to move.
3. You're at the final table bubble against weak players hoping to limp up a few notches in the money.

Unfortunate result, but you werent that big of a dog to his A9.

I push w K8 here without much thought.

Re: Wreckless or justfied move?
 

Thanks for all the quality responses guys. As I said I was a bit hesitant but I decided I had to keep moving and this was an ideal situation to take down the 45,000 in blinds. The only thing I regret is that I ran into a better hand.

Thanks again,
Jack

Re: Wreckless or justfied move?
 

[ QUOTE ]
So, folded around to you in the SB, you have an effective M of around 2, you push.

To me in the BB, you would do that with any 2, I call with almost any 2, 9 or higher. Tight image or no.

The only thing that would give me pause would be if you had folded your SB before in that situation, then I might give you credit for a reasonable hand, and fold a hand such as you described "(K10,Ace rag, etc)"

A better move would be a stop n' go, with a slight delay before you push any non-A flop. (to make it look like you hadn't already decided to push any non-A flop) At least, you've maximized your FE.

Assuming A9 lets you see a flop...

I'd probably fold, wait 2 hands and then push any 2, a) you will have reinforced your "tight" table image recently enough that they might remember b) you won't be challenging the BB of a stack that knocks you out.

FWIW

Regards

Gar

[/ QUOTE ]

The logic escapes me. You would push with any 2. Since you would push with any 2, the BB would have a looser calling range. Therefore, you should fold your king. Huh?

As for waiting until you are in the CO to push -- I find it illogical to assume that a push from the CO with a mediocre hand would be more successful than a push from the SB with a mediocre hand.

Re: Wreckless or justfied move?
 

Please don't take anything I say as gospel. I'll be the 1st to admit I'm nowhere near world class at poker.

I think the BB will be more inclined to "defend" his BB, and a significant percent of the time, his defense will knock me out.

If I fold now, my FE for future hands will increase, based on their perception of my 'tightness' level

If I wait until the BB is out of the blinds, I will reduce his propensity to "defend" to close to, if not, zero.

I think I'll be able to push and successfully steal the blinds twice in the next orbit, with nothing, if I have to.

I know that the BB calling range is large now, but against the "any 2, 9 or higher" range, K8o is only 60-40 ish, or worse. Call me Alice, but I'll take my chances later.

Remembering always that this is Gar, the Pike talking, who may not know his anus from a cloaca, but who believes in playing the player...

Always willing to learn, though, so if you have any insights as to why I'm wrong...

Regards

Gar

Re: Wreckless or justfied move?
 

Sorry I have to say it's a fold, and I'll tell you why because I've been in the same situation, and everyone with an ace/8 or above calls to foil your steal attempt, especially if they have more chips. I was in a smilar situation with king/queen suited. And the big blind calls me with ace/9 offsuit.....no one pairs and I'm out. Bottom line.....I love the reverse when i have a pocket pair or a great ace and the poor schmuck thinks it's another blatant steal attempt and I take all his chips. LONG STORY SHORT...after all the hard work to get there, wait for a better spot. There will be better spots than king 8 offsuit to do the same.

Re: Wreckless or justfied move?
 

Its unrealistic for you to set your sites on the top 3 spots, you should focus on getting more chips.

With 5BB left I'm pushing any two.

Re: Wreckless or justfied move?
 

I'm leaning on moving in here as well. How is your stack in comaprison to most of the other player left in the tourney? If you are on the short side its a move in. If you are on the big side and he has obviously more than you i muck. But it sounds like you are on the shorter sider rather than the bigger side is this correct? If so i move in.

Re: Wreckless or justfied move?
 

I have slightly less chips than the average person. I certainly could have played it safe and waited for another spot but I decided to try to pick up some blinds then.

Re: Wreckless or justfied move?
 

If you're going to commit all your chips on this one hand, I'm looking to get as much out of it for the least amount of initial risk. I'm min-raising PF. If called, I'm pushing any flop. You still get the chips in the middle with a chance to push BB out of the pot if he misses, and you'll have gained 30k more in chips

I don't think you have to be so eager to push PF here... you still have a little room to work

edit: obviously, I didn't vote as I didn't necessarily care for either of those choices [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Wreckless or justfied move?
 

hey skoal I saw you briefly at that Sunday weekly on Pokerstars. Thanks for the advice.