Who is the world champion?
 

I use to play some chess and in the chess world there was usually a world champion that was generally accepted by the chess players as being the best chess player in the world.

I know there is a world series of poker, but there is an element of luck in the short term and the winners of the tournaments are arguably not necessarily the best poker player of that poker type in the world.

So I'd just like to settle this right here, right now and come to a consensus about who is the world champion of texas hold'em poker at least and perhaps the champions of the other forms of poker like 7 card stud and omaha.

I suppose there is limit, no-limit, and pot limit. But since I play no-limit I guess that is my interest. Anyone know who the best no-limit texas hold'em player in the world is? Or any other forms of poker?

Re: Who is the world champion?
 

I would suggest posting this in the NVG or WPT forum, people who care about stupid [censored] like this usually hang out there.

Re: Who is the world champion?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Who is the world champion?

[/ QUOTE ]

Me.

Re: Who is the world champion?
 

Ok, that's one vote for jman220.

Re: Who is the world champion?
 

El Diablo

Re: Who is the world champion?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Who is the world champion?

[/ QUOTE ]

Me.

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yeah, well I shouldn't have lost that heads up match. Always drawing to the gutshot, damn you....

Re: Who is the world champion?
 

I guess Lucifer would probably be pretty good but could God beat him?

Re: Who is the world champion?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I guess Lucifer would probably be pretty good but could God beat him?

[/ QUOTE ]
he was talking about another member of this forum.

Re: Who is the world champion?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, that's one vote for jman220.

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seconded

Re: Who is the world champion?
 

Perhaps a new thread should be created to determine by logical deduction the best 2+2 forum member poker player?

Re: Who is the world champion?
 

Currently it's 2p2 poster Bottomset. He won the last King of the Kiddie Pool tournament (the only one that matters). Before that I was world champion.

Re: Who is the world champion?
 

What parameters would you use in determining this champion?

Re: Who is the world champion?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps a new thread should be created to determine by logical deduction the best 2+2 forum member poker player?


[/ QUOTE ]

I think David Sklansky probably gets my vote considering he in effect taught us all the game to a certain degree.

Re: Who is the world champion?
 

Bill Fillmaff. There is no other.

Re: Who is the world champion?
 

Phil Hellmuth.

If it weren't for luck, he'd win every time.

Re: Who is the world champion?
 

Say the world champion could play heads up against any player and in the long run come out ahead. That would seem to be one good way to describe a champion.

Although it may skew the champion to one that plays well heads up. Perhaps another way to determine the champion is the one who earns the most money, but that may take into account other things rather than pure poker playing like table selection, amount time played.

I like the idea that the champion could generally outplay anyone else over a long period of time.

Re: Who is the world champion?
 

Nepthu,

You are the world champ

Re: Who is the world champion?
 

Why does every n00b play no-limit?

oh, wait...just turned on Bravo...

-ZEN

Re: Who is the world champion?
 

[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

I still don't understand how you've determined the WC. You haven't outlined the requirements for this crown. We know how the MLB World Series and NFL Superbowl teams are chosen. They play a specific number of games in a specific time period.

In poker you've got how many different games? And how many different stakes played for? And then you've got full table, short-handed, etc., etc., etc.

Ain't gonna happen. IMO.

Re: Who is the world champion?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why does every n00b play no-limit?

oh, wait...just turned on Bravo...

-ZEN

[/ QUOTE ]

Pithy. Erudite. As usual.

[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Who is the world champion? *DELETED*
 

Post deleted by Mat Sklansky

Re: Who is the world champion?
 

In chess they have the elo rating system. It seems to work pretty well. When you play against an opponent, your opponents rating and your rating are taken into account, and after the result your ratings are adjusted. You gain points if you win and lose points if you lost the match. You gain more points if your opponents rating was relatively higher than your original rating. You gain less points if your opponents original rating was lower than yours etc. If you want exact details about chess elo you could probably find out about it on the internet i'm sure.

Now, why can't poker have a system like this? This would work very well online. Everytime you win a pot your rating is adjusted. It is adjusted by a number that depends on all the opponents that played in the pot and how much money they put in and what their rating is.

If you win alot of money off a really good player you get more points. If you win a little you get much less points. If you win a lot of money off a poor player you would get less points than if you had won the money off a good player. It could be a complex formula that would accurately reflect skill over the long run. I don't care exactly how it is computed, I'm sure they could figure something out that works well.

Then there is a second number to show how reliable your rating is. The more hands you play the more reliable your rating.

This would mean that the world champion would have to play online poker.

Why isn't there already a rating system like this for online poker? Well I think poker players are more worried about money than judging there skill.

Re: Who is the world champion?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Say the world champion could play heads up against any player and in the long run come out ahead. That would seem to be one good way to describe a champion.

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I'm pretty sure that there isn't anyone that can beat everyone else long term heads up. Think about it. If Player A has a style that can beat Player B, but not Player C, and Player B can beat Player C, but not Player A, then that does not mean that Player A can beat Player C. Maybe he can, maybe he can't. You can't say that A>B>C therefore A>C. Different styles work better against different other styles and strategies. I think the only person in the world who is +EV against anyone HU is Kurosh.

Re: Who is the world champion?
 

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Why isn't there already a rating system like this for online poker? Well I think poker players are more worried about money than judging there skill.

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Definitely. There is no way in hell that I want the fish to be able to see that they are outmatched before they even sit down. Besides, what would be the point?

Re: Who is the world champion?
 

I see your point about different styles and their effectiveness. I'm sure many players do very well sticking to one style. But if you want to be a champion then your going to have to make optimal plays, whatever style that would entail. I would assume the best player does not stick to one style but makes as close to the optimal play as they can.

Whether there is one that could beat everyone else long term in heads up play is arguable. Their play would need to be on another level.

Re: Who is the world champion?
 

To determine a world champion of course :P

Re: Who is the world champion?
 

Thanks. That's interesting. Maybe somebody can and will actually be named as a result of a system. The next step is getting everybody convinced it's the right system.

An afterthought: I don't know if it's good or bad but it seems we're (mostly the male species) just never satisfied until we name somebody Top Dog in every friggin' thing we do. Hormones maybe? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Who is the world champion?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I use to play some chess and in the chess world there was usually a world champion that was generally accepted by the chess players as being the best chess player in the world.

I know there is a world series of poker, but there is an element of luck in the short term and the winners of the tournaments are arguably not necessarily the best poker player of that poker type in the world.

So I'd just like to settle this right here, right now and come to a consensus about who is the world champion of texas hold'em poker at least and perhaps the champions of the other forms of poker like 7 card stud and omaha.

I suppose there is limit, no-limit, and pot limit. But since I play no-limit I guess that is my interest. Anyone know who the best no-limit texas hold'em player in the world is? Or any other forms of poker?

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I think you're confusing the concepts of champion and best. We could vote, of course, on the best player in world. A champion actually wins something. In events that have champions it is very common that the Chamnpion is probably not the best team or player. Look at the NCAA tourney, look at golf or tennis...

But its much more satisfying to have a chamnpion, so our current system of declaring the WSOP winner the world champion is just fine.

--Zetack

Re: Who is the world champion?
 

Look up the criteria for Card Player Player Of The Year.

Re: Who is the world champion?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Say the world champion could play heads up against any player and in the long run come out ahead. That would seem to be one good way to describe a champion.

Although it may skew the champion to one that plays well heads up. Perhaps another way to determine the champion is the one who earns the most money, but that may take into account other things rather than pure poker playing like table selection, amount time played.

I like the idea that the champion could generally outplay anyone else over a long period of time.


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In SuperSystem, Brunson states that the only way to determine the truly best player at a form of poker would be to take the ten (or any number that can fit at a single table) best players in the world and have them play poker every night for a year(I think he just usues a year to illustrate that it must be a long time) while also eliminating any variables, and seeing who comes out ahead by the most. Obviously this is imposssible as variables such as players' health etc are beyond our control, plus how would we determine who truly counts as the ten "best" players in the world. Either way, I think trying to accurately select a best player is impossible, but arbitrarily calling the WSOP ME winner the champion, while flawed in many ways, is fun and is also tradition.

Good luck,
Matt