WSOP has become a joke.
 

After watching yesterdays episode and some of the smaller events won by fish, to me the wsop has become a joke. This is no longer a tournament about skill but about who can make the worst call and be the luckiest.

Some of calls they have been showing are right down sickening. The fact that these players have gone this far in a tournament just goes to show that it no longer is about skill its all about luck. Very depressing.

Re: WSOP has become a joke.
 

[ QUOTE ]
After watching yesterdays episode and some of the smaller events won by fish, to me the wsop has become a joke. This is no longer a tournament about skill but about who can make the worst call and be the luckiest.

Some of calls they have been showing are right down sickening. The fact that these players have gone this far in a tournament just goes to show that it no longer is about skill its all about luck. Very depressing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Espn loves to show alot of that, and don't show the skillful chip accumulating hands that took skill to win. I too am shocked at some of the play I have been watching. I feel like I should go there and take a shot.

Re: WSOP has become a joke.
 

[ QUOTE ]
After watching yesterdays episode and some of the smaller events won by fish, to me the wsop has become a joke. This is no longer a tournament about skill but about who can make the worst call and be the luckiest.

Some of calls they have been showing are right down sickening. The fact that these players have gone this far in a tournament just goes to show that it no longer is about skill its all about luck. Very depressing.

[/ QUOTE ]

To even make this statement shows, I think, a very profound misunderstanding of the incredible effect of luck on short term results.

--Zetack

Re: WSOP has become a joke.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
After watching yesterdays episode and some of the smaller events won by fish, to me the wsop has become a joke. This is no longer a tournament about skill but about who can make the worst call and be the luckiest.

Some of calls they have been showing are right down sickening. The fact that these players have gone this far in a tournament just goes to show that it no longer is about skill its all about luck. Very depressing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Espn loves to show alot of that, and don't show the skillful chip accumulating hands that took skill to win. I too am shocked at some of the play I have been watching. I feel like I should go there and take a shot.

[/ QUOTE ]


This is true, the reason for this is that most of the skillful play comes from the outer tables without the card readers. Not seeing the cards, a series of bets, and then a fold does not make great TV. In reality they have to make their footage from the featured table and showndown hands on the outertables. Most skilled plays never ever see a showdown.

Re: WSOP has become a joke.
 

There is a difference with luck and calling a reraise with A10o. Or taking god knows how long to fold KJs for all your chips. Or in a smaller event that that asian guy won. To call off your stack with AJo.

Sure when you call with AK and the person has KK and you spike and Ace that is luck. But if you call with 64o and beat AA thats not only luck but unskillful play.

Re: WSOP has become a joke.
 

[ QUOTE ]
There is a difference with luck and calling a reraise with A10o. Or taking god knows how long to fold KJs for all your chips. Or in a smaller event that that asian guy won. To call off your stack with AJo.

Sure when you call with AK and the person has KK and you spike and Ace that is luck. But if you call with 64o and beat AA thats not only luck but unskillful play.

[/ QUOTE ]

I get annoyed reading all the books and forums telling you only to play good starting hands, then you turn on the TV and see people calilng raises and bluffing w/ 68o.. Im not particularly talking about the Dannenman hand Im just saying in general.

Re: WSOP has become a joke.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There is a difference with luck and calling a reraise with A10o. Or taking god knows how long to fold KJs for all your chips. Or in a smaller event that that asian guy won. To call off your stack with AJo.

Sure when you call with AK and the person has KK and you spike and Ace that is luck. But if you call with 64o and beat AA thats not only luck but unskillful play.

[/ QUOTE ]

I get annoyed reading all the books and forums telling you only to play good starting hands, then you turn on the TV and see people calilng raises and bluffing w/ 68o.. Im not particularly talking about the Dannenman hand Im just saying in general.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is a place in tournaments for calling with 86s in position. This is something books don't teach you. But having said that. YOU NEVER CALL OFF ALL YOUR CHIPS WITH KJs or AJo. I mean the fact that all these players were in deep though about this was ridiculous. My god. I am definitely playing next year after seeing this.

Re: WSOP has become a joke.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There is a difference with luck and calling a reraise with A10o. Or taking god knows how long to fold KJs for all your chips. Or in a smaller event that that asian guy won. To call off your stack with AJo.

Sure when you call with AK and the person has KK and you spike and Ace that is luck. But if you call with 64o and beat AA thats not only luck but unskillful play.

[/ QUOTE ]

I get annoyed reading all the books and forums telling you only to play good starting hands, then you turn on the TV and see people calilng raises and bluffing w/ 68o.. Im not particularly talking about the Dannenman hand Im just saying in general.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is a place in tournaments for calling with 86s in position. This is something books don't teach you. But having said that. YOU NEVER CALL OFF ALL YOUR CHIPS WITH KJs or AJo. I mean the fact that all these players were in deep though about this was ridiculous. My god. I am definitely playing next year after seeing this.

[/ QUOTE ]

No i know there is a place for that. I wasn't talking about the Dannenman hand I just happened to use the same hand. I know what you mean. When Tiffany was in deep thought I was thinking "she has got to be kidding me!" At best she had to KNOW she was a 45/55 dog! At best!! When I was on Cardplayer.com back in July I was thinking, "Wow this lady must be an incredible player"...

Re: WSOP has become a joke.
 

[ QUOTE ]
This is no longer a tournament about skill but about who can make the worst call and be the luckiest.


[/ QUOTE ]
I believe it was Barry Greenstein who wrote that, if you get all of your money in 3 times as a 4:1 favorite, you're only even money to still be in the tournament after that series.

Don't judge tournaments by what you see on TV. Nor should you overemphasize the amount of skill involved, or skill's ability to overcome luck.

Re: WSOP has become a joke.
 

[ QUOTE ]

No i know there is a place for that. I wasn't talking about the Dannenman hand I just happened to use the same hand. I know what you mean. When Tiffany was in deep thought I was thinking "she has got to be kidding me!" At best she had to KNOW she was a 45/55 dog! At best!! When I was on Cardplayer.com back in July I was thinking, "Wow this lady must be an incredible player"...

[/ QUOTE ]


Williamson's plays were a joke. The only explanation is that with such a huge number of donks in the tourney just based on sheer statistical probability one would get through to this point. It is frustrating though to see such an obviously unskilled player get to where most of us only dream to get.