Verbal Declaration on the end
 

A seemingly experienced live player raises preflop, folded to a young kid in the BB who calls. Flop is AAK, turn is blank, river is blank and the BB check calls the pfr on each street.

When the BB calls the river bet the pfr says, (and this is an accurate quote) "You got it...(slight pause).......you must have something." The BB then hold his cards up--AJ--so the the pfr and most of the table can see it (not the dealer, however)...the pfr nods, kind of smiles, and the BB throws his cards face down next to the muck.

The preflop raiser, who has yet to muck his cards claims that the pot is now his, and starts to raise a stink, and calls the floor. (this is not a high limit game btw)

My question, does verbal declaration of concession carry any weight at all?

Thanks.

--Rico

Re: Verbal Declaration on the end
 

While the hand is being played, verbal declarations are binding. In other words, if someone bets and another person says "I fold". His hand is dead.
But once all the cards are out and action is finished, now only the cards matter. Whatever you say makes no difference. However, if I were the floor, I would rule in the AJ's favor since that is in keeping with the spirit of the game whereas the other guy was obviously pulling a scumbag angle.
But technically the scumbag is right. He has the only live hand and so he should get the pot. And in my opinion, the fact that other players saw the hand shouldn't matter if the scumbag claims (lies) that he himself didn't see it.
(You can't award pots based on a what other people at the table say they saw (after all they could all be collusive buddies). The loser has to see the winner's hand, acknowledge it and muck his own hand before the pot can be awarded.)

Re: Verbal Declaration on the end
 

The cardroom where I used to play in NYC had the rule that if you verbally concede the pot to someone else at the end of the hand, then it is there's even if you had a better hand. But everywhere else, strictly speaking, the hand in the muck is dead. However, I think it would be reasonable (and right) for the floor after hearing the story to award the pot to the kid.

Re: Verbal Declaration on the end
 

That other guy is a [censored] [censored].

Re: Verbal Declaration on the end
 

anyone who hands his cards to the dealer, or mucks them face down before actually scooping the pot deserves to lose. hold onto your cards until you have the money in front of you.

cheers!

Re: Verbal Declaration on the end
 

[ QUOTE ]
My question, does verbal declaration of concession carry any weight at all?


[/ QUOTE ]

If you concede and the other player throws away their hand you lose.

Re: Verbal Declaration on the end
 

[ QUOTE ]
anyone who hands his cards to the dealer, or mucks them face down before actually scooping the pot deserves to lose. hold onto your cards until you have the money in front of you.

cheers!

[/ QUOTE ]

I would completely agree with you if your statement applied only to "us". We all know where we get our profits from. The people we play with aren't usually the brightest stars in the sky.

Angle-shooting jerk-offs can get away with what they do by manipulating the rules. It doesn't happen often but......

Last week. True story. Little old lady. Been coming to the same cardroom for years donating. Always loses. Everybody loves her. She's there to spend a few social hours. No FPS against her at all.

4 hearts on board at the end, she's HU with a stranger. She says, "I have the Jack." and shows the Jh. He says, "I have the King." and as her cards are in a free-slide towards the muck, he says, "OF SPADES!!"

There was not a person in that room who didn't want to wrap a 100' rope around his balls and toss a cement block attached to the end over the Bay Bridge.

Onaflag...........

Re: Verbal Declaration on the end
 

Although it doesn't cover this exact situation, Robert's Rules of Order states,

[ QUOTE ]
Although verbal declarations as to the contents of a hand are not binding, deliberately miscalling a hand with the intent of causing another player to discard a winning hand is unethical and may result in forfeiture of the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]
It seems to me that this player broke the spirit of this rule, if not the letter. In the interest of fairness, the pot should be awarded to the BB.

Re: Verbal Declaration on the end
 

I saw something similar at a Borgata 10/20 game where the man showed his made flush to the other player in the hand and threw his cards face down. The dealer mucked the cards. The ruling was the cards were mucked and he lost a large pot. The security camera was not working or not focused on the table at the time of the hand.

Re: Verbal Declaration on the end
 

The preflop raiser is a diseased pus-dripping a-hole. But BB is responsible for his own cards. LAY 'EM FACE UP!!!

I'd rather suffer the "humiliation" of showing off the second-best hand, than to fall victim to one of these angle-shooting beeyotches. (Besides... if the rest of the table thinks that I'm the sort who gives money away, they'll be more likely to stay in with me in the future.) [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]