UB 25/50: I fold a hand (for once)
 

25/50, UB, six-handed. My image is reasonable, having stacked off a tilting player to build my stack, which stands at ~$9,700 at the beginning of this hand. Villain, who is playing aggro but seems to be showing down lots of winners and not getting too far out of line, covers. He was unknown to me before this session; oxidant for those who played w/ him or who were/are watching the game tonight.

I open for $175 w/ A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Villain calls in BB.

Flop is A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Villain checks, I bet $300, villain makes it $775. I call.

Turn is K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Check, check.

River is 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Villain checks, I bet $1,275, villain minraises to $2,550, I fold.

Thoughts on all postflop streets appreciated.

Re: UB 25/50: I fold a hand (for once)
 

every street looks standard...

Out of curiosity, is check-minraise a common move in 25/50 games? It's such a...sick play and really puts people to tough decisions when holding mediocre hands. How often do you see people check-minraise bluffing? (in this hand, It really seems unlikely that villain would do this without flush)

Re: UB 25/50: I fold a hand (for once)
 

i think you have to 3 bet the flop there dude.

Re: UB 25/50: I fold a hand (for once)
 

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every street looks standard...


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I tend to try getting a lot of money in with top two when there's a flush out there...I don't know how you can say that just calling here is "standard"

Re: UB 25/50: I fold a hand (for once)
 

I assume you're plan was to make a big bet/raise on the turn unless a spade hit?

I'm paying this off unless i know villians tendencies very well. Of course i'm incapable of making big laydowns.

But he played this hand so goofy that I have a hard time giving his minraise too much respect. Pot odds are obviously great and you're clearly beat here often but not often enough to fold IMO. Maybe he misclicked? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: UB 25/50: I fold a hand (for once)
 

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I tend to try getting a lot of money in with top two when there's a flush out there...I don't know how you can say that just calling here is "standard"


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I was pretty much thinking the same thing here as i think reraising is "standard".....But i don't mind giving villian a little rope here in a heads up hand. I think trapping and reraising here are both fine.

Re: UB 25/50: I fold a hand (for once)
 

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i think you have to 3 bet the flop there dude.

[/ QUOTE ]agreed.

Re: UB 25/50: I fold a hand (for once)
 

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i think you have to 3 bet the flop there dude.

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no way i 3bet this flop. no way.

EDIT: who was villain? And above advice is obviously villain dependent- but against your avg 25/50 player I don't like 3 betting w/ these stacks, and position.

Re: UB 25/50: I fold a hand (for once)
 

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i think you have to 3 bet the flop there dude.

[/ QUOTE ]agreed.

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Agreed. But just to clarify, if you raise pot (which I've quickly estimated as being a raise to 2500 or so) and get called, what do you do if a spade comes on turn and:
1) Villain bets anywhere from 3-5K?
2) Villain checks?

Deep stacks I think make this hand pretty tricky if your 3-bet gets called.

Re: UB 25/50: I fold a hand (for once)
 

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every street looks standard...


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I tend to try getting a lot of money in with top two when there's a flush out there...I don't know how you can say that just calling here is "standard"

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what do you do if you threebet, and the turn is any spade, K,J,T,6?

Re: UB 25/50: I fold a hand (for once)
 

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every street looks standard...


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I tend to try getting a lot of money in with top two when there's a flush out there...I don't know how you can say that just calling here is "standard"

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what do you do if you threebet, and the turn is any spade, K,J,T,6?

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Funny that I just asked the question. First of all, I think that if you 3-bet the turn you don't have to worry about T or J b/c chances of a gut-shot calling are slim.

If a spade comes, it's all read-dependent but I tend to fold to a bet and check behind the turn while calling a river bet if it's not a spade.

If a K comes, I probably bet/fold if checked to as I'm still worried about spades. If it's bet at me, I probably find a fold.

Re: UB 25/50: I fold a hand (for once)
 

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i think you have to 3 bet the flop there dude.

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no way i 3bet this flop. no way.



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fwiw mystandard is to just call too.

only time to threebet imo is vs abad player whowill c/r and give excessive action w/ one pair

Re: UB 25/50: I fold a hand (for once)
 

Hmm, not sure that I like this fold, the action is so confusing, I can understand the turn check, if he hit spades to get a call on the river, but then he checks the river, does he really expect you to fire? Most people would be spooked into checking behind. I mean i konw this isn't a bluff cause so many pay it off, but it's a weird way to play 666 or a gutter. I also don't see much point in 3betting the flop. I don't see many people calling the 3 bet.

Re: UB 25/50: I fold a hand (for once)
 

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i think you have to 3 bet the flop there dude.

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My reasoning for not three-betting the flop included (they're all related):

1) An attempt to avoid awkward turn situations given stack size, by waiting for a safe turn to turn up the heat.

2) I have position; makes me perhaps a bit more inclined to take the aforementioned line of waiting for a safe turn to make a move, instead of making a strong move at the pot on the flop.

3) If I three-bet the flop, it seemed like the only hands that stick around that I'm ahead of are a huge draw, A6, and maaaaybe AK. If I three-bet the flop, I'm gonna make a stack-committing raise w/ the idea that I'm ahead and look to get it in while that's still the case. I don't think a pot-sized raise accomplishes this, as it leaves me with more than a pot-sized bet on the turn, making for a gross situation if a scary turn falls. And what hands call a committing raise on the flop (ranging from, say, $4k straight to a push) that I'm beating? Again, maaaybe A6, and a draw that isn't much of a dog might push. Does AK come along?

Also, are you guys value betting the river? And for those of you advocating that I call his raise, with what range of hands does he take this line on the river that I'm still beating after that turn card fell?

Thanks.

Re: UB 25/50: I fold a hand (for once)
 

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Funny that I just asked the question. First of all, I think that if you 3-bet the turn you don't have to worry about T or J b/c chances of a gut-shot calling are slim.

If a spade comes, it's all read-dependent but I tend to fold to a bet and check behind the turn while calling a river bet if it's not a spade.

If a K comes, I probably bet/fold if checked to as I'm still worried about spades. If it's bet at me, I probably find a fold.

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KJs/KTs/JTs are very likely hands for villain to call a flop 3bet w/. This is why a J/T turn is somewhat scary. It doesnt change the hand much... but is still not a "blank". A K is somewhat more scary b/c it is possible villain has AK in addition to JTs, however i think its very rare that villain would have AK and call a flop 3bet (however there are a lot more combos of AK than JTs).

The scariest cards IMO are a 6 or a spade. I think these need to be checked behind.

I think that the most profitable way to play this is to just call the flop; as villain is probably bluffing and/or overrating some % of the time as well.

Re: UB 25/50: I fold a hand (for once)
 

neon,

Bad fold. Sorry.

Re: UB 25/50: I fold a hand (for once)
 

People in this game will value bet worse hands like this, and for that reason alone I think the price is right.

Re: UB 25/50: I fold a hand (for once)
 

if you plan on folding to a min raise don't bet the river.

Re: UB 25/50: I fold a hand (for once)
 

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neon,

Bad fold. Sorry.

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were u villain?

EDIT: WHO WAS VILLAIN!@#!@##$!@$!@>$??????

Re: UB 25/50: I fold a hand (for once)
 

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oxidant for those who played w/ him or who were/are watching the game tonight.

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Re: UB 25/50: I fold a hand (for once)
 

You're most likely beaten on river, but I call getting better than 4 to 1.

I may just chicken out here and check river to see his 666.

Re: UB 25/50: I fold a hand (for once)
 

diablo and strassa hit it i think.

after he check-raises the flop, i do not see the turn going check-check and him checking the river to you if he has a flush.

combine that with what strassa said of being value bet at with a worse hand, and the price is just too good for your hand to fold. definitely holding the winner here a large enough % of the time.

Re: UB 25/50: I fold a hand (for once)
 

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diablo and strassa hit it i think.

after he check-raises the flop, i do not see the turn going check-check and him checking the river to you if he has a flush.

combine that with what strassa said of being value bet at with a worse hand, and the price is just too good for your hand to fold. definitely holding the winner here a large enough % of the time.

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so you expect to see complete air here from the opp here?