Rip this apart, Freeshowdown Mid Pair?
 

SB is 58/16/ (3agg postflop) over 200 hands

Ok so I have been working on my play lately and am trying to work out when to use "free showdown technique". I am guessing this was right, but after he didn't 3-bet the turn maybe I should have bet/folded this. What does he call if I bet though? He is seriously loose so do we see A-x here enough for bet/fold to be the correct play?

Could he have gotten tricky with a 3, or got scared with his K, or would he bluff raise due to high aggression? These all make me think betting may not be correct.

Is it better to call down after he fires again, or is the free showdown play what we want because we are probably ahead and we want to charge him to draw? If we get 3-bet we are folding and lose our 2 outs to improve. I thought that we are probably ahead often enough to raise here and hope he doesn't improve, he may check/fold river when he doesn't improve so we lose a BB. However he may often check when he does improve because of the aggreession we have shown?

Prima 1/2
Hero is dealt T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Preflop
All fold to Button who limps, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop :
K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
SB bets, Hero raises, Button folds, SB calls.

Turn 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
SB bets, Hero raises, SB calls.

River 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
SB checks, Hero checks.

True

Re: Rip this apart, Freeshowdown Mid Pair?
 

the turn and river look good, but I prefer folding the flop.

(small pot + weak kicker)

Re: Rip this apart, Freeshowdown Mid Pair?
 

I think I fold the turn after he donks. You just raised him on the flop and he doesn't care. You're probably drawing to 2 outs (9's). He's probably got a weak K.

If you really want to show it down, I'd check/call....he just bet into you on the turn after you raised the flop, there's no guarantee he's going check the river if you raise him now.

Re: Rip this apart, Freeshowdown Mid Pair?
 

It is probably results orientated, but I thought his aggression was slightly high and thought he wasn't legitimate.

Trust issues [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Buttons FF was 40 so I thought there was a good chance I could take it down there. In hindsight the pot is small and I have medium pair with a weak kicker. The board is also unco-ordinated so I am only winning vs a bluff. But as I said I thought this guys aggression / looseness warranted the play.

I am looking to improve so I can understand this and it helps my play. How big of an mistake would this be. Is it big / small?

True

Re: Rip this apart, Freeshowdown Mid Pair?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think I fold the turn after he donks. You just raised him on the flop and he doesn't care. You're probably drawing to 2 outs (9's). He's probably got a weak K.

If you really want to show it down, I'd check/call....he just bet into you on the turn after you raised the flop, there's no guarantee he's going check the river if you raise him now.

[/ QUOTE ]

The 3 is a scare card in this fish's playbook I think. If I was ahead on the flop I imagined I was ahead here. I thought at the time that I was probably ahead of him a large majority of the time on the flop. This could be a mistake I am making. (over valuing my hands against loose gooses [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img])

True

Re: Rip this apart, Freeshowdown Mid Pair?
 

I would just fold the turn. when he bets into you again there there is two good of a chance that he has a better 9 or a K, in which case you only have 2/3 outs and there's a decent chance you're still not going to showdown.

Re: Rip this apart, Freeshowdown Mid Pair?
 

Looking again, that guy is pretty agro considering he's playing like half his hands and raising a good portion (3 agg. is hi too).

I've seen these guys do some strange things, but it's usually more along the lines of capping with middle pair, rather than calling a raise and donking again.

By the way, what stat is "40 FF," not familiar with that abbreviation.

Edit, nevermind FF is probably Folded Flop or something similar.

Re: Rip this apart, Freeshowdown Mid Pair?
 

Yeh, I think I should find a fold on this flop turn. If it was anyone else I think I would have.

I played a hand against him bout ten mins ago :

Him Jd3x, flop Qd3d9x He bet/called.
Turn Kd, bet /called,
river Qx he bet / called.

I had AdQx.

True

Re: Rip this apart, Freeshowdown Mid Pair?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yeh, I think I should find a fold on this flop turn. If it was anyone else I think I would have.

I played a hand against him bout ten mins ago :

Him Jd3x, flop Qd3d9x He bet/called.
Turn Kd, bet /called,
river Qx he bet / called.

I had AdQx.

True

[/ QUOTE ]

Using stats like this (an actual hand) rather than stats really helps us analyze this hand lots better. However, your hand beats very few of his possible pair holdings (a weak 9 is all), so I think the turn should probabaly be a call, and call a river bet, but dont raise the turn IMO.

Re: Rip this apart, Freeshowdown Mid Pair?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yeh, I think I should find a fold on this flop turn. If it was anyone else I think I would have.

I played a hand against him bout ten mins ago :

Him Jd3x, flop Qd3d9x He bet/called.
Turn Kd, bet /called,
river Qx he bet / called.

I had AdQx.

True

[/ QUOTE ]

Using stats like this (an actual hand) rather than stats really helps us analyze this hand lots better. However, your hand beats very few of his possible pair holdings (a weak 9 is all), so I think the turn should probabaly be a call, and call a river bet, but dont raise the turn IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

with this new hand I agree that a calldown is in order. don't raise with your marginal hand but just let him keep coming..

in the OP hand I mean.