Re: Hellmuth\'s AK hand
 

AK is not an implied odds hand, it is the king of reverse implied odds. The fact is, when you call a reraise preflop you are hoping to flop TPTK 30% of the time. Those times you will not win much more when catching your pair puts you ahead, but you will lose a lot when you make 2nd best. With deep stacks most players dramatically overvalue AK, then again with shallow stacks plenty of players dramatically undervalue it.

Re: Hellmuth\'s AK hand
 

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This seems like a routine preflop fold to me.

-Jason

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i guess you mean to the minraise. I can see that vs. him if you put him on AK,AA-JJ.

Re: Hellmuth\'s AK hand
 

Phil comes back raving after that guy who can't spell pohker puts a bad beat on him. First hand he plays (at least it looks that way on TV) he raises. I think Magriel thought Hellmuth could be on just a little tilt and even if he's raising with a decent hand might just lay it down since Magriel's raise is committing Hellmuth's entire stack. So it's reasonable to think that given the range of hands Hellmuth could be raising with that he'd fold to that large of a re-raise. Particularly since Hellmuth is known to lay down some big hands. And if Hellmuth pushes, Magriel hopes to at least be "off to the races".

Think about it, Hellmuth put all of his chips in the pot with AQ knowing that Magriel had odds to call. What hands is Hellmuth ahead of? AJ? Hellmuth made a bad decision here.

Re: Hellmuth\'s AK hand
 

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Phil comes back raving after that guy who can't spell pohker puts a bad beat on him. First hand he plays (at least it looks that way on TV) he raises. I think Magriel thought Hellmuth could be on just a little tilt and even if he's raising with a decent hand might just lay it down since Magriel's raise is committing Hellmuth's entire stack. So it's reasonable to think that given the range of hands Hellmuth could be raising with that he'd fold to that large of a re-raise. Particularly since Hellmuth is known to lay down some big hands. And if Hellmuth pushes, Magriel hopes to at least be "off to the races".

Think about it, Hellmuth put all of his chips in the pot with AQ knowing that Magriel had odds to call. What hands is Hellmuth ahead of? AJ? Hellmuth made a bad decision here.

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It seemed like Phil was committed to call most any raise (even one to put him all in) or push over someone else's raise, after Phil made his original raise because he was somewhat low stacked. The only time he wouldnt is if it went push, and call, or something. I don't think we know Phil's exact stack, but that's the impression I got.

Magriel had to have known this. Or at least that there's a good chance phil is gonna push. If I knew that, I would just fold 7s.

It seemed to me phil was pretty committed after his initial raise. The only reason he didn't open push probably is that he probably wanted some action. It didn't seem like phil's move was that bad, especially if we know Magriel has a laggy image.

Re: Hellmuth\'s AK hand
 

I haven't read any responses, but I think it was clear that the old man was waaayy too relaxed when Hellmuth was coffeehousing and Phil picked up on that.

Phil actually did a good job of getting him to show top set after the hand too. Kind of impressed with his play on the hand, except for checking in the dark.

Re: Hellmuth\'s AK hand
 

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AK is not an implied odds hand, it is the king of reverse implied odds. The fact is, when you call a reraise preflop you are hoping to flop TPTK 30% of the time. Those times you will not win much more when catching your pair puts you ahead, but you will lose a lot when you make 2nd best. With deep stacks most players dramatically overvalue AK, then again with shallow stacks plenty of players dramatically undervalue it.

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I know, that's why I asked how deep he needed to be to make the call with AK *knowing* he had AA.

Everyone flamed me in the "Hand with the Masters" thread for wanting to open limp AK in EP.

I do that because of the big reverse-implied odds, you often either win a small one or lose a big one.

Regards,
Woodguy

Re: Hellmuth\'s AK hand
 

pretty much deeper than any tourney structure allows.

Re: Hellmuth\'s AK hand
 

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pretty much deeper than any tourney structure allows.

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Fair answer.

Regards,
Woodguy

Re: Hellmuth\'s AK hand
 

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Yes upon watching this I as shouting to my friends that Phil is amazing but now this makes alot of obvious sense. Some questions...


SossMan: Why is that a good example of why you should reraise when deep stacked? I also don't know who you meant to raise, and why? Please clarify.

KingDan: How is it a tough lay down?

Lloyd: What do you mean WPT discussion forum? Is that a joke because their boards suck? I've never been to them.

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Well, I think a few of the people who are claiming this to be a super routine fold would lose a big pot here.
It is possible I would notice the stereotypical shrug before betting
I'd like to think I would pick it up everytime, but seeing the cards helps a lot.

Re: Hellmuth\'s AK hand
 

OT: Enjoy Thierry breaking the record yesterday? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]