Newbie turning coward?
 

So I'm at the "I've been going too far with my hands -> I'm folding to any sign of danger " phase in my learning hold'em cycle.

How would you have played the following hands?

I just joined the game, all the other players are complete strangers.

Hand1:
Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">7 folds</font>, UTG calls.

Flop: (5.50 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 5.75 BB

Hand 2:
Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 raises</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, Button calls, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

Flop: (7 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 bets</font>, Button calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG+2 folds, Button calls.

Turn: (6 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 7 BB

Re: Newbie turning coward?
 

hand 1- looks good

hand 2 you beat a flush there partner

Re: Newbie turning coward?
 

Hand 1: Call down, or bet river if checked to ui.

Hand 2: Flop good, then either bet/3bet turn or check/raise/cap.

Re: Newbie turning coward?
 

Hand 1- Read? Would donk a 7? Prolly not, so nh. But a significant amount of players will, and you'll have cost yourself $$ if you don't know that for this kind of hand. Reads are good!

[ QUOTE ]
hand 2 you beat a flush there partner

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Newbie turning coward?
 

Hand 1) Seeing as you had no reads, I think this is a reasonable fold.
Hand 2) Everytime you fold in this situation, god kills a kitten. Please tell us it was a mis-click...

Re: Newbie turning coward?
 

did you notice that there was an 8 on the flop and that the turn paired the board?

when you have three of one card and two of another, it is called a full house. chance are when you get one, you'll when with it.

Re: Newbie turning coward?
 

I call down in Hand 1.

I'm not sure what just happened in hand 2 or if I'm even reading the board right but I think you just check/folded a full house? Bet/3-bet the turn.

Re: Newbie turning coward?
 

[ QUOTE ]

Hand1:
Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">7 folds</font>, UTG calls.

Flop: (5.50 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 5.75 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

At the beginning of a seesion I might raise/fold this just to make sure he's not screwing around with second pair. Probably 8:1 to fold this.

[ QUOTE ]

Hand 2:
Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 raises</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, Button calls, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

Flop: (7 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 bets</font>, Button calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG+2 folds, Button calls.

Turn: (6 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 7 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a typo? You folded the 5th nuts?
If he had AA he 3-bets the flop because of the two-flush and the likelyhood that you have a big hand worthy of capping. Same with JJ.

The only hands you can lose to here are AA, JJ and AJ. I cap the turn and bet/call the river.

Re: Newbie turning coward - pasted the wrong hand :-)
 

Not only do I suck on poker, I suck on Copy&amp;Paste :-)

Re: Newbie turning coward?
 

Hand 1---turn fold is very bad, why would you raise preflop,raise the flop and fold the turn with your hand?

Hand 2---THis one is tricky, however you have to call it down.

Re: Newbie turning coward?
 

:grunching

Hand 1 is hard to play without any reads. A fold is probably a good default play though.

Hand 2, you make your full house on the turn and you fold? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] You probably cost yourself &gt;10BBs here. Raise and cap!

Edit: I missed your check in hand2, just bet/3-bet

Re: Newbie turning coward?
 

[ QUOTE ]
So I'm at the "I've been going too far with my hands -&gt; I'm folding to any sign of danger " phase in my learning hold'em cycle.

How would you have played the following hands?

I just joined the game, all the other players are complete strangers.

Hand1:
Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">7 folds</font>, UTG calls.

Flop: (5.50 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 5.75 BB

Hand 2:
Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 raises</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, Button calls, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

Flop: (7 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 bets</font>, Button calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG+2 folds, Button calls.

Turn: (6 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 7 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

Grunching

Hand 1: After your flop aggression, another jack pops up and villian seems not to care. Depending on my read (if villian is not normally too aggressive) I fold this. I might call the turn to see a river (miricle T) or even call down if villian is very aggressive because he/she might also be overly playing middle pair and think that the second jack on the boare makes it more likely that you dont have one.

Hand #2:Terrible fold, what does villian have that beats you Quad Aces AJ? I cap every street unless the board pairs again because villian is much more likely to have a lone ace. If he has the flush or just trip aces, CHARGE HIM FOR IT.

Greg

Re: Newbie turning coward?
 

*grunch

I like hand 1. his response to your flop raise really tells you where you are (unless he's vv.agg).

Hand 2? I guess i don't like money some days either. i'm sure you know by now that that was a serious mistake.

Re: Newbie turning coward?
 

Hand 1: I go to calldown mode. If he really had the jack, I think he'd be tempted to check-raise the turn. I think he has a seven and thinks with two jacks out you don't have anything.

Hand 2: I'd bet out the flop hoping to get raised by preflop raiser since that ace hit. Then we can 3-bet the flop and he might cap. Then you fold on the turn? Button could be betting a flush draw that came in since he called both bets on flop. Again, I lead the turn, if I get raised, its three bet time again.

Re: Newbie turning coward?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1---turn fold is very bad, why would you raise preflop,raise the flop and fold the turn with your hand?

Hand 2---THis one is tricky, however you have to call it down.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow you swung and missed on both these.

Hand 1 fold is not very bad. Its not bad at all with no reads. Calling down you are going to see a J here about 90% of the time.

Hand 2 isnt tricky and you dont call down, you raise. I expect to see villian with AK or AQ most of the time.

Re: Newbie turning coward?
 

Grunch

Hand 1: looks good. If villian is a LPP then you I would put him on a J or higher pair.

Hand 2: You've got a full house. You have to raise on the river.

Re: Newbie turning coward?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1---turn fold is very bad, why would you raise preflop,raise the flop and fold the turn with your hand?

Hand 2---THis one is tricky, however you have to call it down.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow you swung and missed on both these.

Hand 1 fold is not very bad. Its not bad at all with no reads. Calling down you are going to see a J here about 90% of the time.

Hand 2 isnt tricky and you dont call down, you raise. I expect to see villian with AK or AQ most of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

J 90% of the time are you joking.....

Re: Newbie turning coward?
 

Grunch:

Hand 1. Depending on the read of the other player, I tend to call down if he is loose and aggressive or just plain stupid. If he is a good tight aggressive player then I'll fold. If I don't have a read, I sometimes will call down just to see what he has (tend to do that too much, though).

Hand 2. With a flush draw on the board, I tend to bet out the flop. I would hate for it to be checked through giving any flush draws a free card.

Once the board paired, I then hope like hell someone hit a flush or at least has trip aces. Only thing that can beat you are quads or a bigger full house. You'll win more times than you will lose.

Re: Newbie turning coward?
 

Hey, just wanted to let you know you're not alone in mis-reading your hand, like hand #2.

I've done that before. (lot's of other mistakes as well)

I would get into a mindset of "I have xxx hand" on the flop, and possibly overlook the flush/straight/fullhouse I made on the turn or river.

Also watch out when you're playing two pair and the board pairs, possibly counterfeiting one of your pairs. I've missed that in the past too.

Try to get into the habit of re-reading the board on every street, and also think about all the ways your hand can improve on every street. Then bet accordingly [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

If my advise is too basic, just tell me to shut up, wouldn't be the first time...
Rob

Re: Newbie turning coward?
 

I did that a couple of times early on. Calling down after the board paired thinking someone hit bigger trips than me without realizing that I boated up. Only to be surprised when I won the hand. I learned real quick, when I have a set and the board pairs that is a good thing. It is good when the other guys hits his trips then. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Re: Newbie turning coward?
 

Grunch . . .

Hand 1: Eh. I think I pop again on the turn or just call down, but folding's not too terrible a play in this smallish pot. Mostly read-dependent and you admitted you're new to the table.

Hand 2: *barf*

This is a full house. There are only five conceivable hands that beat you. We all make mistakes, but this was a serious one. You just surrendered a fat load of chips.

But I'm sure everyone else has told you this.

Re: Newbie turning coward?
 

[ QUOTE ]
J 90% of the time are you joking.....

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Newbie turning coward?
 

Gawddamn, if I were to figure on folding once I made a boat I'd have folded preflop.

Or not have sat down in the first place.

Re: Newbie turning coward?
 

I would call down in hand 1. I think you see a 7 a decent amount of time.

Hand 2, I will just quote Miles.

[ QUOTE ]
did you notice that there was an 8 on the flop and that the turn paired the board?

when you have three of one card and two of another, it is called a full house. chance are when you get one, you'll when with it.


[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Newbie turning coward?
 

[ QUOTE ]

Hand1:
Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">7 folds</font>, UTG calls.

Flop: (5.50 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 5.75 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

I would've played it the exact same way. There might not be a 90% chance he has a Jack, but there's a large enough chance that spending 2 BBs to find out isn't worth it.

[ QUOTE ]

Hand 2:
Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 raises</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, Button calls, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

Flop: (7 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 bets</font>, Button calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG+2 folds, Button calls.

Turn: (6 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 7 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

Like everybody said - Bet/3-Bet the turn.

Re: Newbie turning coward?
 

Hand 1.
If we decide to continue, should not we raise the turn to protect our hand weak to any Q,K,A and fold to 3-d raise?