$20/$40 high: routine fold
 

Seems routine, though I'm surprised sometimes by plays like this that turn out to be something silly like a 3-flush [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]. Anyone find a fold earlier?

7 Card Stud High ($20/$40), Ante $2, Bring-In $5 (converter)

3rd Street - (0.70 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 2: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls___raises
Seat 3: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 4: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls___folds
Hero: A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___completes___calls
Seat 6: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 8: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___brings-in___folds

4th Street - (5.20 SB)

Seat 2: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets
Hero: A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls

5th Street - (3.60 BB)

Seat 2: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets
Hero: A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds

Total pot: (3.60 BB)

Re: $20/$40 high: routine fold
 

Looks good to me. I wouldn't fold 4th. I think you have to see this one to 5th. If he bricks 5th, a call might be justified.

Re: $20/$40 high: routine fold
 

NH

Re: $20/$40 high: routine fold
 

Monster laydown!!! you probably got lucky in that you were able to let go of this early.

Re: $20/$40 high: routine fold
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm surprised sometimes by plays like this that turn out to be something silly like a 3-flush

[/ QUOTE ]
Only Beermoney does this.

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone find a fold earlier?


[/ QUOTE ]
Nope.

Re: $20/$40 high: routine fold
 

What an ugly situation for a nice starting hand. Not knowing your opponent, I'll assume like you that he is raising a big pocket pair. If we give him that, and he raised J's, there is an argument for a fold on 4th. When the K hits him on 4th, there are 7 combinations of high pocket pairs that beat Jacks possible. He could have the case Qs, in which case you would have an easy call. There are three combinations of Ks he could have in the hole, which leaves you virtually locked out. There are three combinations of aces, which leaves you in a very bad spot. Regardless, you are trailing little once or trailing large six times, and if you wanted to dump it on 4th street, I would have no complaints.

Re: $20/$40 high: routine fold
 

Howling, you're exactly right. I had given no thought to folding 4th until I read your analysis. You're getting 7 to 1 current odds to call 4th, & this is sufficient only against pocket Q's in his hand. Good job. Ben.

Re: $20/$40 high: routine fold
 

Thank you Ben, and your response had me re-analyze the hand.
I think there were 5.2 sb listed on 4th street, so by calling he would be getting 6.2-1, close enough to what you said, but the reverse implied odds make his situation even worse. To see the river from 4th street, where there are 3.6 b bets in, he is going to have to put in 2.5 bets, and will be getting only 1.44-1, just to see the river. I started this further review, because driving in my car I forgot to include the other pair of J's as his possible pocket pair. So he could be favored, albiet slightly, over this one hand. I reviewed the betting, and realized I had completely missed the most obvious hand. If I read the converter correctly, the 7h is the first to call the bring in. He does so, then AFTER it is raised and comes around to him, he re-raises. So he passed his first chance to raise, then popped it. Did he get mad with the other J's "I know you don't have J's, I have 'em!"? Slow play two dead Q's? Not likely. Slow play K's or aces, very possible. Slow play 777? Ding ding ding ding, we have a winner. So the only unlikely hand we can beat on 4th street is the other pair of JJ. We also have the possible but unlikely QQ. With the obvious now staring me in the face, we have six combinations of sets we can be up against on the turn, K's or 7's, and three combinations of aces. So we have nine likely slow played possibilities (AA)7 (KK)7 (77)7, and two very unlikely ones, (JJ)7 (QQ)7. This combined with the reverse implied odds makes this an easy fold on fourth.

Re: $20/$40 high: routine fold
 

Obviously this thinking is part of why I asked about this hand, but do you think it is proper to completely discount (A7)7 or (K7)7 or a 3 flush? Or even just someone being silly? I had no read on the player.

I think if you factor in some chance of the opponent being full of it, it becomes much trickier.

Re: $20/$40 high: routine fold
 

Obviously there is a reasonably good chance that he could have a pair of sevens with a big kicker, or a big three flush. There are a number of hands which play better heads up here, and, if he decides to play with them, he would be correct to raise with them, even if he is not ahead on third.

Having said all that, there are very few hands like that which are playable, and don't contain either an ace or a king. Given that it seems you are very likely to be behind, and there is a fair chance that you are badly behind, (kings up or better), then I think it is a good fold. Assuming that villain understands when he should play heads-up and when he would prefer multi-way, (thus significantly widening his hand range), then I think 4th is a call.