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-   -   Worth while cointoss or -EV? (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=298612)

overtly spruce 07-22-2005 10:50 PM

Worth while cointoss or -EV?
 
I have been losing a decent amount of money chasing flushes the past few days in what has a been a typical situation. It is usually HU or three handed where I have something like A9s that I have limped, and then hit a bottom pair or mid pair on the board, or have nothing on a rag with two suits to match, putting me on a nut flush draw. I mini raise the flop and get called by one or two people, see the turn, then get raised by an opponent holding something like K4os who has hit top pair. What should I do? What I have been doing is going way over the top, or pushing... but I keep losing a lot or my entire stack, consistently. Is this sound play, or should I be folding to any sort of bet on the turn if I am HU or three way?

-Skeme- 07-22-2005 10:51 PM

Re: Worth while cointoss or -EV?
 
Why are you limping A9s? Do you play full ring or 6 Max? Post some hands where you chase flush draws.

snappo 07-22-2005 10:54 PM

Re: Worth while cointoss or -EV?
 
[ QUOTE ]
I mini raise the flop and get called by one or two people

[/ QUOTE ]

Stop min-raising. You won't get people to fold, all that you'll accomplish is getting money in as an underdog.

[ QUOTE ]
see the turn, then get raised by an opponent holding something like K4os who has hit top pair. What should I do?

[/ QUOTE ]

Take some free cards so you dont get check-raised. If you're OOP, then that begs the question of why are you limping drawing hands OOP in the first place?

overtly spruce 07-22-2005 11:02 PM

Re: Worth while cointoss or -EV?
 
I limp A9s for the implied odds of drawing a flush, then fold to a rag unsuited board. I play full ring.

ajmargarine 07-22-2005 11:07 PM

Re: Worth while cointoss or -EV?
 
What about A8s? A7s? I imagine with this logic you go all the way down to A2s. Correct?

-Skeme- 07-22-2005 11:08 PM

Re: Worth while cointoss or -EV?
 
You shouldn't be doing that very often. Playing AXs for flush value is generally done only at VERY loose-passive tables or in late position with limpers ahead of you. Limp-calling preflop, OOP, on JUST 2 suited cards isn't a good idea.

Flopping a flush is 118:1, so don't expect that too often. It's 8:1 to hit the flush draw, which isn't too great, either. Playing a draw out of position isn't a good spot to be in. Generally, it should be avoided if possible. I doubt you're ever getting immediate odds to chase your flush draws, and I doubt you'll often get your opponent's whole stack when you hit. Remember, flush draws are the obvious ones.

I routinely fold AXs in EP, fold in MP unless the table conditions permit a limp, and sometimes raise from CO/Button. When I raise, it's not to flop anything, it's just to pick up blinds or win with a continuation bet on the flop.

AXs sucks. Play it sparingly.

PokerCat69 07-22-2005 11:23 PM

Re: Worth while cointoss or -EV?
 
I used to play Axs and Suited Connectors, but they simply spew chips. Think of all the times you limp in then someone makes it 2-3XBB and you call since you have money in already. Flop misses and you fold. Plus the majority of time when you do flop a draw it doesn't pan out and you bet preflop/flop/turn. And where is the pay off?
How often do you take someones entire stack on a flush or straight?
Axs and even low suited connectors are limit hands.

overtly spruce 07-23-2005 01:06 AM

Re: Worth while cointoss or -EV?
 
That is correct, I will play Axs, from any position for one BB.

jtr 07-23-2005 09:54 AM

Re: Worth while cointoss or -EV?
 
[ QUOTE ]
That is correct, I will play Axs, from any position for one BB.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you use PokerTracker? Do you have a decent number of hands in your database? I guarantee you that, given your stated policy, you will be losing money with the baby suited aces in the long run.

-Skeme- 07-23-2005 10:18 AM

Re: Worth while cointoss or -EV?
 
[ QUOTE ]
That is correct, I will play Axs, from any position for one BB.

[/ QUOTE ]

So if someone minraises back to you, you fold?


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