85s defense
 

Villain is 48/15/1.6 after enough hands

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, Button checks.

Missed my check-raise here.

Turn: (2.25 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>

This is certainly a monster a decent amount of the time, but is he full of it enough to calldown getting 6.25:2, knowing sometimes I'll river his AA or whatever he's pulling this with?

Is anyone so afraid of a monster, they check the turn as well?

Re: 85s defense
 

no I usually play it the same. I hope I find out I'm wrong folding the turn because I always fall for this

Re: 85s defense
 

i think folding is ok. pot is a little small to call down especially with ur read that he is monster. and leading the turn is standard i believe, unless u know hes tricky and capable of bluff-raising.

Re: 85s defense
 

i need to memorize PT stats. This guy looks LAG, so I would value call my pair.

Re: 85s defense
 

bah, people are stealing my blind stealing line. It works great against TAGs. However, unless the player is capable of making this move (i.e. I consider this a rather advanced blind stealing move), I think its a safe fold.

Re: 85s defense
 

I'll often check this turn and encourage the LAG to take another stab - he'll raise us here with a lone big [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] often, but he'll also raise his AA or 22 or whatever.

By betting we let him fold junk hands like QT that he might take a stab with again when we show weakness by checking the turn, and we sometimes let ourselves get bluffed out of the pot by a big diamond ...i'd check-call, check-call (barring a 4th diamond).

Surf

Re: 85s defense
 

[ QUOTE ]
(i.e. I consider this a rather advanced blind stealing move)

[/ QUOTE ]

It's an advanced move if done intentionally, but this line will often occur when certain circumstances occur:

LAG raises pf with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], and is called by a tag. Raggy flop that he misses, but he's got a gutshot + backdoor draw. He checks through cause this TAG likes to c/r flops, and picks up the nut flush draw. Great! TAG bets, he raises his nut-flush + gutshot because TAGs can fold stuff.

This is only one possible scenario, but I think it's worth taking a line that gets us to showdown more often because we're letting the LAG hang himself with his aggression.

Surf

Re: 85s defense
 

i usuall lead this hand vs this kind of oppenet then call down. Check raise makes pot too big if you cant fold to raise on later street. More apt to check raise TAG's than lags because I will be more showdown commited vs lag's.

Re: 85s defense
 

[ QUOTE ]
LAG raises pf with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], and is called by a tag. Raggy flop that he misses, but he's got a gutshot + backdoor draw. He checks through cause this TAG likes to c/r flops, and picks up the nut flush draw. Great! TAG bets, he raises his nut-flush + gutshot because TAGs can fold stuff.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's giving a player who has adopted a far from optimal style of play a lot of credit.

Re: 85s defense
 

I agree that check-calling may be best- I think this turn raise will come too often and leave us with little idea of where we are. If villain has crap, let him bluff away and next time we'll be more prepared.