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JeanieJ 12-30-2005 09:20 PM

Follow up bets
 
Let's say we're in a large MTT (1250 people). The blinds are 15/30 and average stack size is slightly under 2k. Your stack size is 1800 or so.

You raise preflop in MP with A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] to 120.

Only the SB calls. The pot size is 270 T$

The flop misses you completely but you decide to make a follow up bet on a board that is likely to have missed your opponent.

Now, how much do you bet?

I personally believe that a bet of 3/4 to pot size is more likely to make our opponent fold. Anything too small will make him smell weakness and perhaps call or even worse raise you off the best hand.

My husband (also a good player) believes that it doesn't take nearly as much to take the pot down on the flop.

When making a follow up bet on a board that misses you and likely your opponent, how much do you follow through with and why?

All thoughts/opinions on the subject appreciated.

-Jeanie
xo*Kisses*xo @ Stars

betgo 12-30-2005 09:39 PM

Re: Follow up bets
 
It depends on the opponent and the table. I usually bet aboout 3/4 pot. Harrington says half pot and that may work in major tournaments where people bet half pot when they make their hand.

You want to make more or less the same bet as you would with the hand you are representing. Say you raise with KQ and the flop comes A77r. Then I would make a small bet to represent an ace a little afraid of a 7, but not worried about being drawn out on.

Also, I don't think it is good to automatically make continuation bets. It depends a lot on the board. You want it to miss your opponent and look like it would hit a preflop raiser. Not making a continuation bet does not necessarily give up on the hand (and giving up on the hand is not necessarily bad). There are all sorts of other ways to play it.

Matador225 12-30-2005 10:38 PM

Re: Follow up bets
 
It definitely does depend a lot on the buyin and players. Although Harrington advocates 1/2 pot CBs it has to be a bit more than that to get any respect in lower buyin levels. For this reason my standard is 2/3, but that changes depending on table dynamics and stack sizes.

whiskeytown 12-30-2005 10:44 PM

Re: Follow up bets
 
IMHO, a pot sized bet works well.

First off, a lot of times I WANT to take this down - esp. if the flop missed me - Who cares if people fold.

Regarding your husband's advice - in later stages as chips get more precious I'll lower the size of my raises and bets from 4xBB to 2 or 3 - (and at your level I might raise to 5 or 6xBB since it's online and everyone calls) - but small bets in the early stages - meh - work SOMETIMES - but not as much as in the later stages...

Two important things...

1. - Consistancy - the same bet size every time, whether AA or AK or 72 will help - you'll get more folders.

2. - Pot size and draws - if you suspect any flush or st8 draws a pot sized bet is important to get players out.

you bet 120 into a 270 pot and you're giving him some good odds (3.5-1) to hit the flush.....AND a lot of players will draw to that...and if they hit, and you can't let the hand go, it'll be +EV for them with the implied bets/odds if they hit.. - so make them pay as often as possible with pot sized bets when you suspect a draw.

RB

woodguy 12-30-2005 11:08 PM

Re: Follow up bets
 
[ QUOTE ]

Now, how much do you bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

3/4 pot if there are obvious draws, 1/2 if there are no obvious draws.

I also be exactly the same if I nail the flop as I bet a lot.

Regards,
Woodguy

TwistedEcho 12-30-2005 11:18 PM

Re: Follow up bets
 
depends on the flop. Quite often now i check behind, as i would with an A92 flop. It stops them check/raising air, and means if they check the turn, i often take it down with a 2/3 pot bet.

If im going to continuation bet, usually 2/3 of the pot.

JeanieJ 12-30-2005 11:38 PM

Re: Follow up bets
 
I agree that the higher the buy in the more difference it makes.

Are higher limit players more likely to fold to a follow up bet? Or are you more likely to get called?

betgo 12-31-2005 01:25 AM

Re: Follow up bets
 
[ QUOTE ]
I agree that the higher the buy in the more difference it makes.

Are higher limit players more likely to fold to a follow up bet? Or are you more likely to get called?

[/ QUOTE ]

Higher limit players are generally much easier to bluff. Low limit players tend to be tougher and recognize a continuation bet for what it is.

Colombo 12-31-2005 06:29 AM

Re: Follow up bets
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I agree that the higher the buy in the more difference it makes.

Are higher limit players more likely to fold to a follow up bet? Or are you more likely to get called?

[/ QUOTE ]

Higher limit players are generally much easier to bluff. Low limit players tend to be tougher and recognize a continuation bet for what it is.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're kidding me right? At the higher buyins (say $100+), you will get check-raised after making a continuation bet about 75% of the time. You will get raised by air alot, and also made hands.

For example, you raise AK and the BB calls.

The flop comes 924. The BB has 10Js and checks to you. You bet 2/3 the pot. If the BB is a tough player, he will probably raise you here. He figures you for a couple of high cards, and if you have a PP he is probably willing to take that risk as it is more likely you have nothing.

In the lower buyins, people say "o well, i missed that flop, I'll fold."

zoobird 12-31-2005 07:36 AM

Re: Follow up bets
 
I play mostly freerolls, and your last sentence describes it perfectly. In freerolls (and I think most low buy in events) many of the players are only thinking about their own hand. They're not thinking "ok, the flop missed me, but it probably missed everyone so any bet is likely to be a c-bet, so I can steal here". So a flop like 952 rainbow is going to be very easy to take with a follow up bet. That said, I still think its worth betting 2/3 of the pot...1/2 just doesn't seem to win it often enough.


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