Advanced Low Limit Tactic
 

OK, since I gave in my other thread why I won't discuss what I feel is advanced high limit plo strategy, I thought of something that is an advanced tactic but will likely only ever work at lower limits for reasons I will give at the end. Maybe this will seem obvious to some of you, but I have seen players fail to use it many times while I made lots of money with it on 100 or lower tables. Since I don't play that low anymore, I thought I would share it.

Often times you will be involved in a pot with a shorter stack. Say in this situation you have something like QJ97ss in middle position usually in a raised pot which will escalate the postflop bet sizes. So 4 of you see a flop on a $100max table in which there was a raise and the pot has about $10 preflop. The flop comes down T82 no suits. A shorter, but not extremely short, stack checks and you bet your draw in front of two other players who now fold fearing a set, and the shorter stack who started with maybe only $50 now calls and the pot is $30. The turn brings a 3 maybe putting a 2 flush on the board or not and he checks again and since you have a good draw and position you bet again hoping he will lay down a very weak draw or top pair only, all this assuming he is not an habitual slowplayer/checkraiser with sets. So you bet $30 and he calls and the pot now has $90. River brings a K which didn't complete any draws (or better yet the 2 or 3 pairs) and he checks again having only $8 left. Now what you do, not having even a pair to show down is to slightly overbet the pot like $15. You are getting huge odds on this bluff in the hopes he will not call you with a pair less than top pair or even A high. Very often he had a similar drawing hand like yours either with or without a pair made, but I have seen players check behind on the river when they miss because they think there is no way the short stack won't call for less than $10, often with the result that A high or middle flop pair won for that player, which is a ridiculous result for the odds you can get on a bluff.

I don't claim this is rocket science and the only reason I call it advanced is because I have seen so very many situations where it could have been made by the bigger stack with position but they choked and checked instead. Now obviously as well this play could and often should be used against even a bigger stack that checks to you, but you will have to bet more, usually 1/2+ the pot and don't get nearly as large an overlay on the play.

The reason this most likely wouldn't work on a short stack on the higher limit tables is that everyone there including them are more aggressive, which includes betting and checkraising even with very weak draws. Also they are more likely to adopt the appropriate counter strategy which of course is to bet allin themselves that last small money when the river bricks, giving themselves the odds on a no pair bluff in the hopes that the other player was himself just being aggressive with a draw and doesn't have even a pair in which case he probably won't call or even with A high.

Re: Advanced Low Limit Tactic
 

I can corroborate that low limit players frequently, maybe even 80% of the time, will fold a fairly large pot for their last few bucks if they miss an obvious draw. Happens to me all the time, though Im usually holding a set or something, and not making this play as a bluff

Bluffthis!, can you successfully 4-table the high stakes tables (200-2k)? I'm fairly comfortable 4-tabling the 100's, but I often hear the 200's and up referenced as "trickier", more aggressive games, and Im afraid that would be difficult to 4 table (my bankroll is ready to make the move up though)

-Matt

Re: Advanced Low Limit Tactic
 

Porsche, I only play the big plo and nl games and I only play 3 tables max at any time because they are more aggresssive, and even playing tight and mostly folding I still need to be able to take time to properly analyze and determine my best play for the situation. The only reason I would be on 4 is because I just added another better table and will soon be dumping one.

Re: Advanced Low Limit Tactic
 

Thanks for the post. I am one of those who is loathe to "waste" a few dollars when it seems obvious foe would call off the remainder of a puny stack. But thinking back, I agree w/Porsche that foes do indeed fold in these situations. I can think of a couple times when I've min-bet the river just to be ornery when it's obvious foe was chasing, and sure enough: fold.

Still, I'm liable to bet less on the turn to leave a chunk for a river bluff here. But sub-pot bets may be more consistent with my betting patterns than they are with yours.

Re: Advanced Low Limit Tactic
 

I think a more advanced play would be talking about why betting the pot on every street, especially the turn, is wrong in this spot.

gl

Dave

Re: Advanced Low Limit Tactic
 

Dave,

It is true that you should often just take the free card in position to avoid the possibility of being checkraised and to lose less if you don't hit and are up against a calling station who won't be bluffed if holding any pair for small money. I frequently do the same. However I stipulated that the opponent was not a known slowplayer/checkraiser. Also I play good draws aggressively in position just like I do sets.

Re: Advanced Low Limit Tactic
 

I am quite certain that Dave was not talking about checking the turn here, which is obviously terrible as you've given your opponent free reign to take the pot away if you miss on the river.

What he means is making smaller bets along the way when your opponent is shortstacked in order to control the pot better. I'd much rather have my opponent have a 1/2 pot size bet or more remaining so he will fold.

While, yes, occasionally opponents do fold to very small bets with bottom pair on the end, you'll find another group of people who will throw their giveup chips in because they're just gonna reload anyway.

Pot control is key.

Re: Advanced Low Limit Tactic
 

Yes this is it of course, Aces, I didnt realise I was being vague. And this is the advantage I have of almost never betting the pot. If he has 15-20 bucks left he really has a decision.

gl

dd

Re: Advanced Low Limit Tactic
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yes this is it of course, Aces, I didnt realise I was being vague. And this is the advantage I have of almost never betting the pot. If he has 15-20 bucks left he really has a decision.

gl

dd

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought that you always bet less then the pot because you are British, Dave. Now I'm confused [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

I've been thinking about pot control a lot lately. It's hard once you fall into the aggro pattern of always BTP to recgonize how you are (a) accomplish expensively what can often times be accomplished less expensively (b) failing to create situations on the river where you can bluff effectively.

Re: Advanced Low Limit Tactic
 

[ QUOTE ]
I've been thinking about pot control a lot lately. It's hard once you fall into the aggro pattern of always BTP to recgonize how you are (a) accomplish expensively what can often times be accomplished less expensively (b) failing to create situations on the river where you can bluff effectively.

[/ QUOTE ]

The only problem with this is that you set yourself up to be read easily in spots where you'd really like to protect your hand to the maximum.