Experts: What would you change about how you learned poker?
 

This topic has been touched on obliquely in other posts recently, and I've been thinking more about it as it occurred to me the other day that a year ago, I would have expected present-day-me to be a better poker player.

For those of you that have become good high-limit players, what might you have changed about how you developed your game?

On one hand, playing more hands would certainly have helped me, on the other, a more regimented approach to plugging holes in my game might have been better time spent.

Thanks for any input.

Re: Experts: What would you change about how you learned poker?
 

Good post, Ill reply with my poker regrets so far even though im only .50/1 player. I dont have a job so im pro right [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]


I'd have...
-Bonus whored earlier build my role
-Joined PokerStars & Purchased PT at the very start
-posted here and purhcased SSH reading it twice at least.
-Purchased more books and played 4x tables daily for an hour minimim
-Reviewed all losing sessions on one day dedicated to improving my game.

I didnt do any of these as i didnt have the info at the time of the decisions, So i dont feel to bad... but now i know where im at and im heading to 2/4 by xmas. Wish me luck. Good thread look forward to replys.

Re: Experts: What would you change about how you learned poker?
 

Gotcha. You just neglected to play enough hands, spend money on books and software, spend time utilizing those critical tools, get a bankroll going, and bother reviewing your sessions.

But you're already up to $.50-1, so it's all good. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Experts: What would you change about how you learned poker?
 

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-Reviewed all losing sessions on one day dedicated to improving my game.


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you dont only lose money on losing sessions.

Re: Experts: What would you change about how you learned poker?
 

Indeed, but i review these first. Then i go onto winning sessions.

Re: Experts: What would you change about how you learned poker?
 

Well, I'm no expert, but here's my take. Although I had played poker for many years I was fairly new to hold'em when I started online. I lurked on this forum, read and studied for six months before making a deposit. While this probably got me off to a better start than most people, looking back I would have started playing sooner. Everything in the books really started to make sense at about 20K hands. In other words, there's no substitute for practice and experience, provided, of course, that you're studying and improving along the way. Repeating the same mistake 10,000 times isn't good practice.

Re: Experts: What would you change about how you learned poker?
 

I would like to have played more and have a lot more money in the bank.

Re: Experts: What would you change about how you learned poker?
 

Known more better players. It took me alot longer, but my friends much less time because they could just talk and learn from me.

Re: Experts: What would you change about how you learned poker?
 

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I would like to have played more and have a lot more money in the bank.

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during the may 2005 unlimited 30-60 tables opening, i wouldn't have left my computer.

Re: Experts: What would you change about how you learned poker?
 

I don't play high stakes games yet but, before I ever deposited any money, I just watched players at all levels and tried to really pay attention to what they were doing. After a while I was really able to figure people out better than I would have without doing that. You get to learn a very important skill by watching real money players before actually depositing any money. I still have my losing sessions, but I felt more confident getting into it for the first time. But if I had to change anything, it would have been purchasing poker tracker sooner.

Re: Experts: What would you change about how you learned poker?
 

I'm only into the middle limit games & I don't know that I would term myself an "expert", but I think I've progressed fairly well since I started playing. Looking back...

-Bonus whoring/rakeback. I knew that bonuses existed when I started out, but didn't realize how prevalent they were, or how easily one could use them to augment their bankroll just by switching sites. I had no idea what rakeback was, and so I didn't get a rakeback deal...these two mistakes have likely cost me thousands of dollars since.
-I would've moved up more slowly. I jumped up the limits way too quickly, both from a skill and from a bankroll standpoint, and only good fortune kept me from busting myself early on.
-I would've started playing sooner. I started playing about 13 months ago, and I can't even imagine how much money I missed out on right after the big online poker boom started.

As far as skill development, I'm very happy with how I'm progressing. I read my first book on poker (Hilger's ITH) before I played my first hand of real money poker, and picked up SSH entirely by accident shortly afterwards. I started posting & reading here on 2+2 after reading that book, and that has been invaluable in increasing my learning curve (incidentally, all you lurkers--you will get a lot more out of this site by participating. I've learned much more by being wrong in a few debates on here than I have by reading other posts). And I resisted multi-tabling until I had been playing for several months, and even then didn't move beyond 2 tables at a time until about a year after I started playing. I think that was a key factor in learning the game.

Re: Experts: What would you change about how you learned poker?
 

Ugh. This is the worst thread ever [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Bonus whoring will not make you a better player. Bonus whoring solves a bankroll problem, not a skill problem. Most people should be able to make a lot more money doing something else than they do clearing intermittent bonuses.

Re: Experts: What would you change about how you learned poker?
 

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Bonus whoring will not make you a better player. Bonus whoring solves a bankroll problem, not a skill problem. Most people should be able to make a lot more money doing something else than they do clearing intermittent bonuses.

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This is true for an experienced player. For an inexperienced player cutting their teeth in micro- or even nano-limit games, and starting with a very small initial deposit (often $100 or less), and often just barely beating the game as they learn the finer points of playing, bonus whoring can make a huge difference. Not only for their bankroll, but also for their confidence. It can also allow them to move up the limits more quickly, thereby further increasing their profits, and, perhaps most importantly, it can help to prevent them from busting out early on in their poker "career" and then giving the game up before they had a chance to really develop.

Besides which, the question asked "what would you change about how you learned poker"...not "what would you have done as you learned poker to make you a better player now". I would much rather have learned with a bigger bankroll, rather than spent my first two months playing nanolimit poker as I built up my initial $20 deposit.

Re: Experts: What would you change about how you learned poker?
 

I've played for 4 years now. I never read a book. I started out not being the best player alive, and of course i lost a little money. Eventually, over time, i became what I am today, and that's a winning player. Despite not reading a book, i've read many things online over the years to help me learn and improve. Maybe if I'd change something, it'd be to buy Super System a little earlier than I did, which was a few months ago. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Experts: What would you change about how you learned poker?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I've played for 4 years now. I never read a book. I started out not being the best player alive, and of course i lost a little money. Eventually, over time, i became what I am today, and that's a winning player. Despite not reading a book, i've read many things online over the years to help me learn and improve. Maybe if I'd change something, it'd be to buy Super System a little earlier than I did, which was a few months ago. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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I'm curious in a simply curious way. How did you find these forums? I saw it on one of the many 2p2 books I'd owned for a long time before realizing there was a forum, or even a decent one, at the website plastered on the back cover.

Onaflag..........

Re: Experts: What would you change about how you learned poker?
 

the most important thing isn't to play, but to think.

You can learn a lot about poker if you think why you'd make each player rather then just what play seems the best initially.

Really simple, but really REALLY important. Just think what the results of each ooption presented would be vs your opponents range of hands.

The other thing, is skill is more important then money, i'm pretty sure given 300 bucks i could tuen it to 10k in a month or two if i was fairly dedicated at this point. However, a lot of people are content to grind it out at 3/6 rather then working hard at improving their game (by experimenting and trying higher limits). Take shots and try to improve your play rather then your bankroll (while still not putting yourself in danger).

The really big thing i've learned is Skill >>>>>>> Money, as once you get the skill, the money comes a lot quicker.

Re: Experts: What would you change about how you learned poker?
 

After little more than a year, I'm nowhere NEAR expert, probably more like "beginner +". But looking back on the experience thus far, a couple of comments:

Things (I think) I did right:
* Started at low limits online (.25/.50 Pacific), and only played one table at a time for months.
* Realized at very beginning that NLHE and LHE are vastly different games, and that what I saw on TV bore almost no relation to correct LHE play at low limits.
* Focused on LHE as the game to master...didn't bounce between LHE, NLHE cash games, and NLHE tournaments, like I see so many do. (Not saying that LHE is the way to go...just saying, pick one and concentrate on it)
* Took a study-oriented approach and read a lot from the very beginning (HEFAP, TOP, WLLH - SSHE wasn't out yet)

Things I gooned up:
* Moved up in limits way too fast - didn't understand variance and bankroll requirements.
* Played chronically underbankrolled. (never completely busted out, but the swings were extremely frustrating)
* Didn't multitable early enough.
* Took shots at higher-limit games I had no business being in (I'm still vulnerable to this tendency).
* Didn't get PT until recently. Another thing I should have done months ago (although I'm not 100% sold on the idea that you should use PT from the VERY beginning...)

Re: Experts: What would you change about how you learned poker?
 

If I had my time again I would have delayed reading HEFAP until after I'd played a WLLHE style for a couple of months. I thought I understood HEFAP but in retrospect my lack of experience meant I ended up misapplying the concepts and picked up a bunch of bad habits.

The other mistake was playing NL tournaments before I'd got up to a reasonable standard at limit. Trying to learn two completely different games thinking they were similar generated a lot of "noise" and led to hard to lose bad habits in both forms.

Re: Experts: What would you change about how you learned poker?
 

Powerful post!!!

Re: Experts: What would you change about how you learned poker?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm curious in a simply curious way. How did you find these forums? I saw it on one of the many 2p2 books I'd owned for a long time before realizing there was a forum, or even a decent one, at the website plastered on the back cover.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was told about these forums on another forum (FTP forum)

Re: Experts: What would you change about how you learned poker?
 

i'm not a high stakes player and certainly not an expert. I do multi-table NL $50 full ring games and find that I can beat game at this level. Tried the $100 a bit too soon and varience sent me back down to 50.

Starting out -
Learned sooner that TPTK is crap and a sure fire way of an appointment with the bank manager.
Definately should have read more about the game first.
Purchased poker software (PT or PO) earlier. A definate must when multi-tabling. I use Poker Office and found it difficult to get into PT. Should I change?

Re: Experts: What would you change about how you learned poker?
 

i wouldn't have talked about 5+ tabling on 2+2 until it was already discovered/popular [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: Experts: What would you change about how you learned poker?
 

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i wouldn't have talked about 5+ tabling on 2+2 until it was already discovered/popular [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

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Funny you mention this. I actually equate your decision to do so with the explosion of multitablers(totally serious here, btw). Before you came along and said this, myself and everybody I know was 2-4 tabling and was totally content.
-James

Re: Experts: What would you change about how you learned poker?
 

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i wouldn't have talked about 5+ tabling on 2+2 until it was already discovered/popular [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

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fwiw, thanks for the idea [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: Experts: What would you change about how you learned poker?
 

yep same here

Re: Experts: What would you change about how you learned poker?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I actually equate your decision to do so with the explosion of multitablers(totally serious here, btw).

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yyyep [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] i've never seen the root discussed here, but i'm pretty sure it was my fault. by the time i realized what i had done, it was too late for damage control. inevitable, but i wonder how much longer it would have gone before it became popular if i hadn't big-mouthed it. it's not something for which i'm proud. i guess i just see it as a "thing".