best starting hands source?
 

I just started getting interested in hold'em and I've been trying to figure out what starting hands two use. I have sklansky's hold'em poker book and at first I was going to memorize his list. But I've also seen some computer generated lists as well as "Abdul's" table. I thought that Abdul's table seemed like the best choice because of its logical layout. Some of the rankings don't match with my intuition, especially the ones closer to the small blind (from the right) For example K2s is the same rank as 75s. and they can only be played as dealer or small blind. I'm definitely going to memorize one list/table as I like memorizing tables (I play blackjack too). So my question is what starting hands should I use/ is Abdul's good/best?

Thanks
Steve

Re: best starting hands source?
 

Hi,
The best thing u can possibly do as a beginner is understand which hands play better multiway and which hands play better with only 1 or two opponents. You must also understand that this is not like blackjack where there is a basic strategy because ur starting hands should change depending on the game conditions. I would stay away from hands like 75s etc in any position except in the small blinds to complete the bet.

-MJ

Re: best starting hands source?
 

Just my two cents. While you are learning the game, utilize an extremely tight starting list. I'm talking about maybe 5 or 6 Class A hands. This is intended to be a breakeven or small losing strategy but will give you time to learn how each hand actually plays in certain situations without the risk of going broke and losing interest in the game.

Starting hands are very important but if you don't learn how to play them, widening your repetoire of starters will spell almost certain disaster. When I started playing I found that learning how to play aces was just as important as getting them. The same holds true for all other hands.

Good luck and keep us posted on your progress. BTW, this is an excellent source of information while you are learning the game also. Many very talented people post here and a lot can be learned from their experiences.

Hotchile

Re: best starting hands source?
 

Actually, the sources you have noted are very good, but you might want to pick one of Lou Kreiger's books, probably his first "Holdem Excellence, From Beginner to Winner" he has what he calls the 'Start Chart' ant it pretty much lays out S&M info but in a grid to see what is good. One day when it was raining and I was bored, I took all my books and put their starting hands in excel and put them side by side to see differences. Mostly I discovered that between Lee Jones, S&M, and Lou Kreiger, they were similar. But you might want to read into S&M to see that in some games, you either add or remove playable hands due to game texture, as you get more of a feel for what starting hands are worth you will instinctively adjust. I also remember reading an article that I think David wrote in which he said he cringed when people came up to him and claimed to have memorized the entire chart. The most important thing is that you get a good foundation from these books, apply it, then understand why playing some hands in some situations does not fit the chart. [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img]

Re: best starting hands source?
 

I would stay away from Abduls list if you are new to the game. I havent read any of his stuff in a while, but as I remember he is an advocate of raising some of the more marginal hands and sometimes just calling with bigger hands. HPFAP lays things out pretty well in my opinion.

Re: best starting hands source?
 

Can someone tell me where to find Abdul's chart again?

Re: best starting hands source?
 

http://www.posev.com/poker/holdem/st...lop-abdul.html

Re: best starting hands source?
 

Deciding on what 2 cards to play 3,4 or 5 handed is as much about position, chip stacks and the other players as your starting cards. I suggest reading (previously recommended) books and playing lots.

Heads up:
For playing heads up against an unknown hand:
K2s wins 53.21% of pots (ranked #71 of 169 starting hands)
75s winw 43.68% of pots (ranked #124 of 169 starting hands)

Heads up between K2s and 75s: K2s wins 54.50%.

Top 20 starting hands to play heads up (% is % of pots won against an unknown hand):
AA (85.20%)
KK (82.40%)
QQ (79.93%)
JJ (77.47%)
TT (75.01%)
99 (72.06%)
88 (69.16%)
AKs (67.04%)
77 (66.24%)
AQs (66.21%)
AJs (65.39%)
AKo (65.32%)
ATs (64.60%)
AQo (64.43%)
AJo (63.56%)
KQs (63.40%)
66 (63.28%)
A9s (62.78%)
ATo (62.72%)
KJs (62.57%)

So, heads up against unknown opposition AKs (67.04% pots won) is marginally better than 77 (66.24%). Which do you prefer 3 way? 4 way? 5 way?

Re: best starting hands source?
 

Hi FastCards,
Interesting data there.

I think you make a good point about number of opponents.

One thought though. Tables of win results against random hands are interesting. But once opponents decide to stay, isn't true I'm probably not against random hands any more?

If so, what's the correct way to adjust for that. I'd tend to think the winning percentages go down. But how much would seem to be "opponent dependant".

Well, any thought would be appreciated.

Sincerely,
Frank

Re: best starting hands source?
 

Hi HotChili,
I think you make a great point here. Which is, "Once you've elected to start with a hand, what is your overall strategy for playing it?"

As well as perhaps, "What is the ideal way for it to play out?"

Or simply, "What are you trying to do with it?"

Seems to me that once you decided what hands you will start with, and when, the next page in one's play book should be the strategy for the remaining streets.

As it stands, I'm planning to table-ize starting reccomendations from one or two sources (might even ask the other poster who already did, to post his findings).

To be honest I have a hard time recalling HE starting reccomendations, being a stud player first.

Anyway, I sort of percieve the "later streets" play book to be organized from most to least powerful hand with a summary for each. Like say, "Want to get heads up with a drawer ideally, release hand when... blah blah blah".

I went throught that exercise with stud and organized it as though it would be my own book. Anyway, lost it in a disk crash...ARGH!!! Some 40 pages of notes on hands, Players, limits and rakes around the Strip etc.

At some point I guess you toss the learning aids. But being new to the HE way of playing. Gotta start somewhere.


Anyways, ever seen a reference that goes down the hands and states the overall idea when playing it?

Would save me some effort.

Sincerely,
Frank