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-   -   Who likes this push? Party 30+3 w/ 250 entrants (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=405685)

Dave D 12-27-2005 01:51 AM

Who likes this push? Party 30+3 w/ 250 entrants
 
I thought this push was a little excessive, but I really hate Jacks, especially in this position. Moved to this table about 11 hands ago, so no huge reads but the table seemed on the aggro/tight side with a fair amount of raising PF and and calling and then folding on the flop. Hence also why I didn't really wanna play my Jacks Post flop.

I pushed 33 in MP when it folded to me once for about 10 blinds, someone called but I won the flip against AQs. Otherwise they havent seen any hands from me except one raise OTB where I took it down.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

MP3 (t7074)
CO (t1730)
Button (t1005)
SB (t3500)
BB (t3555)
UTG (t2638)
Hero (t2407)
MP1 (t6895)
MP2 (t1505)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls t150, Hero pushes...


TwistedEcho 12-27-2005 01:56 AM

Re: Who likes this push? Party 30+3 w/ 250 entrants
 
whats wrong with 600, then playing poker if you get a caller?

ansky451 12-27-2005 01:58 AM

Re: Who likes this push? Party 30+3 w/ 250 entrants
 
[ QUOTE ]
whats wrong with 600, then playing poker if you get a caller?

[/ QUOTE ]

Dave D 12-27-2005 02:13 AM

Re: Who likes this push? Party 30+3 w/ 250 entrants
 
Mostly my feel of the table. I have horrible position with a fairly vulnerable hand and I already have 1 caller to me. I was pretty scared of an overcard coming and then I'd have to fold b/c I feel like I'd get played at.

I also felt like I had a fairly decent shot at worse hands calling me, since my 3s got called b4.

Raising to 600 only leaves me w/ 1800 behind. Feels like there's a good chance I'd have to push a flop, I just felt like it could get real ugly real fast while I'd have to committ 1/4 my stack and awful position.

12-27-2005 03:16 AM

Re: Who likes this push? Party 30+3 w/ 250 entrants
 
I make it 3 1/2 from here. If i get called, see the flop and go from there. To vulnarable of a hand to be pushing from this position...

Dave D 12-27-2005 03:27 AM

Re: Who likes this push? Party 30+3 w/ 250 entrants
 
[ QUOTE ]
I make it 3 1/2 from here. If i get called, see the flop and go from there. To vulnarable of a hand to be pushing from this position...

[/ QUOTE ]

This makes no sense. If it's a vulnarable hand I'm less likely to want to play it...so I'd push it like 44... But you want to play it, implying its strong hand that wont get sucked out...

12-27-2005 03:52 AM

Re: Who likes this push? Party 30+3 w/ 250 entrants
 
It is vulnarable from that position... you are in early position remember... id much rather be raising 3 1/2 then pushing. Thats what i was saying...

chok1 12-27-2005 10:04 AM

Re: Who likes this push? Party 30+3 w/ 250 entrants
 
a push is a little excessive. there's still a lot of people to act. A raise wouldve been better.

illegit 12-27-2005 10:20 AM

Re: Who likes this push? Party 30+3 w/ 250 entrants
 
[ QUOTE ]
whats wrong with 600, then playing poker if you get a caller?

[/ QUOTE ]
Because 'playing poker' with jacks sucks?

betgo 12-27-2005 10:39 AM

Re: Who likes this push? Party 30+3 w/ 250 entrants
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
whats wrong with 600, then playing poker if you get a caller?

[/ QUOTE ]
Because 'playing poker' with jacks sucks?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you do better raising to 600. You have 2400 and there is 375 in the pot. If you standard raise, someone may reraise with a weaker hand. If you get called, you can win a much bigger pot than if everyone folds to the push.

I think the push is kind of weak/tight afraid to see a flop. It is OK if you feel that you are overmatched postflop or you are playing with maniacs or calling stations who will call without real strong holdings.

The push looks more like AK, so Ax/Kx will fold if they have any sense. Someone might be stupid enough to call with a lower pair. Against good players, you are only going to be called by AA-QQ or AK.

If there were 2 or 3 limpers, I like the push more, as it is less of an overbet and it looks like you are trying to steal the pot. In that case, people may put you on AK/AQ or a steal and call with TT/99.

Dave D 12-27-2005 01:28 PM

Re: Who likes this push? Party 30+3 w/ 250 entrants
 
[ QUOTE ]

you are playing with maniacs or calling stations who will call without real strong holdings.


[/ QUOTE ]

I felt like this was a real posibility. Not so much maniacs, but that I would get a push called, since my 3s push got called by AQs.

But still, what if I get one caller after me and the flop comes KT3, two suited, I have 1800 left, how much do you bet? This is the situation I was afraid of.

bruce 12-27-2005 01:42 PM

Re: Who likes this push? Party 30+3 w/ 250 entrants
 
There's an analagous thread on the single table forum about
a spot like this. Slightly different hands and fewer tables
but worth a look.

Bruce

betgo 12-27-2005 01:59 PM

Re: Who likes this push? Party 30+3 w/ 250 entrants
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

you are playing with maniacs or calling stations who will call without real strong holdings.


[/ QUOTE ]

I felt like this was a real posibility. Not so much maniacs, but that I would get a push called, since my 3s push got called by AQs.

But still, what if I get one caller after me and the flop comes KT3, two suited, I have 1800 left, how much do you bet? This is the situation I was afraid of.

[/ QUOTE ]

On a KT3 flop, I would bet out solidly and be ready to go allin.

Pasterbator 12-27-2005 02:00 PM

Re: Who likes this push? Party 30+3 w/ 250 entrants
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

you are playing with maniacs or calling stations who will call without real strong holdings.


[/ QUOTE ]

I felt like this was a real posibility. Not so much maniacs, but that I would get a push called, since my 3s push got called by AQs.

But still, what if I get one caller after me and the flop comes KT3, two suited, I have 1800 left, how much do you bet? This is the situation I was afraid of.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you raise to 600 preflop and get one caller, there will be 1300-1600 in the pot. With 1800 left, i think checkraising all in is the safer play.

If you bet at the pot, the only reasonable bet would be a push. You're unlikely to get called by a hand that you beat. MAYBE A10 from a donk who puts you on AQ. Checkraising here lets you pick off a possible bluff, and may be able to push someone off a better hand (unlikely.)

Elaboration 12-27-2005 02:38 PM

Re: Who likes this push? Party 30+3 w/ 250 entrants
 
DaveD,

Seems weak tight to me. With your stack and JJ, I'm looking to accumulate here and I think a standard raise gives you the best chance to do that.

If the flop goes south for you and you are able to get away, you'll still have enough BBs and folding equity to try to rebound.

Dave D 12-27-2005 03:10 PM

Re: Who likes this push? Party 30+3 w/ 250 entrants
 
Results btw were that someone called in later position with AQ but my hand held up and I doubled through.

Pasterbator 12-27-2005 03:27 PM

Re: Who likes this push? Party 30+3 w/ 250 entrants
 
woooo. rock on. I still like the raise.

wizard 12-27-2005 03:44 PM

Re: Who likes this push? Party 30+3 w/ 250 entrants
 
Your 33 push may impact the way that people wiew your JJ push and this may get you some of the action that you ar trying to avoid. I think a raise of 3 - 4X is better. This allows you to get away if the flop is ugly and allows you to push or play if it looks good.
Nice result tho

12-27-2005 03:59 PM

Re: Who likes this push? Party 30+3 w/ 250 entrants
 
[ QUOTE ]
Your 33 push may impact the way that people wiew your JJ push and this may get you some of the action that you ar trying to avoid

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea, the 33 push might get weaker hands calling you down. (22-55)(A7-AJ) Is that a bad thing? Do you not like being a dominating favorite?

He is trying to avoid a bigger hand coming along (and maybe a c/f), not an inferior one.

Anyways, I think its 50/50 what I would have done. But I like the raise to t600, and check-raise all-in move. That seems the most effective.

Dave D 12-27-2005 04:25 PM

Re: Who likes this push? Party 30+3 w/ 250 entrants
 
[ QUOTE ]
Your 33 push may impact the way that people wiew your JJ push and this may get you some of the action that you ar trying to avoid. I think a raise of 3 - 4X is better. This allows you to get away if the flop is ugly and allows you to push or play if it looks good.
Nice result tho

[/ QUOTE ]

This was what tipped me to pushing, that someone's likely to think I'm pushing 33 again and call with 99.


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