Helping friends get better
 

I'm interested as to how others feel about helping out your home game friends when they come to you for advice. I have a group of ~20 people and we play at least twice a month (it's gotten more frequent lately) We play low buy in stuff, usually $20 tourneys. If not the best player in our group, I'm easily in the top 3 (I always overrate myself, but I personally think I'm the best player) and a few of the beginners have come to me asking for advice. They want to know what books they should read or they'll ask me for advice on how to play a hand. I'm kind of torn on this because I do like to see people improve when they are genuinely interested in doing so and as a friend I feel I should help out. But at the same time I'm likely to decrease my advantage over others.

The money we play for means little to me so that's definitely not an issue. I think ultimately this leads me to freely help people improve and I take a small amount of pride when I see someone get better. Could I also view this as a chance to improve my game, ie if everyone else raises their games perhaps mine will raise to stay ahead? Up until this point, I view these games purely as a social event, not as a chance to really improve my game.

I'm interested in what others have done in a similar situation; both people that play for small stakes and those which play for serious money. How far should you go to help someone improve?

Re: Helping friends get better
 

The way I see it, as your competition improves it will also force you to either improve your game or fall by the wayside.

It no longer becomes easy money but if you ever want to get beyond your current skill level, you will need to be challenged on a frequent basis.

I constantly recommend books to my friends and I suggest you do the same [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Helping friends get better
 

I'm in the play for fun and trying to improve my game category so here's one side of the scale view...

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The money we play for means little to me so that's definitely not an issue.

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nuff said here so help away...

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Up until this point, I view these games purely as a social event, not as a chance to really improve my game.


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Still a social event but might as well be improving your game at the same time. I think situations like these can also bring out things you thought you knew well but when you have to explain them you realize you don't. No since in offering it up unless asked but if someone wants to learn why not help.

My 2¢,
Fins

Re: Helping friends get better
 

Maybe you should recommend this book .
Russ

Re: Helping friends get better
 

What the hell book is that. Maybe I should pick it up to improve my crap hand playing skills.

gull

Re: Helping friends get better
 

I was faced with the same dilemna. At first, I kept this place uber-secret. I didn't even want them to know that I had read any books.

Now though, I've told my close friends about this place and recommended some books. Frankly, it makes the tournaments more fun when people play a little better, and certainly keeps me sharp. In some ways, it's even easier to put them on a range of hands, after they read a book or two.

So I'd go ahead and help them. The key is that as you said, the money isn't important. But wouldn't Vegas be a lot more fun if you all can play well when you go there?

Re: Helping friends get better
 

Giving advice when asked is fine for your friends. Just one warning, never give unsolicited advice. Some people will really take offense and they are the ones that will just need to learn through their beats.

Re: Helping friends get better
 

Let's see...

1. They're a friend
2. They asked for your help
3. You are able to help

That seems plenty sufficient to me --- help them!

Maybe with your help, they'll become a better player than your are. Good for them. Good for you for helping them.
Maybe they'll return the favor.

Re: Helping friends get better
 

When one of my friends asks me about improving their game, I honestly tell them what I think they're doing wrong, and what I think they're doing right. Sometimes they even listen. It cuts into my winnings, but it forces me to improve my game. I think we currently have one of the tougher games around with $0.05/$0.10 blinds.

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Giving advice when asked is fine for your friends. Just one warning, never give unsolicited advice. Some people will really take offense and they are the ones that will just need to learn through their beats.

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Not to mention that people you don't want to improve, actually might. I tend to keep my mouth shut around the more vocal newbies who think that, say, Hellmuth's book has given them a license to beat (and berate) us "inferior" players.

Re: Helping friends get better
 

The better the players the players you compete with, the better your game becomes. The ideal home game, for me, is a friendly affair with great players. The ideal casino is an un-friendly game with terrible players.

At our group we have a general policy of not helping people while the game is on, but spending a good deal of time later in the week figuring out how to get better.

Re: Helping friends get better
 

I set up my weekly game for the purpose of helping my friends (and I) to improve our poker. We play a $25 max buyin NLHE cash game. The money is not a lot to the players but bragging rights are. It's funny to see a 5/10 player upset at being outplayed in a $40 pot.

I think the 'poker school' concept is a great way to learn to play better. As your friends get better you will have to improve also.

Another important factor is it forces you to mix up your game. Playing with the same people all the time, especially NL, means you will have to think of newer and better plays to get the money. Having a smallish buyin means it doesn't hurt that much to push and see what happens.

Rob

Re: Helping friends get better
 

I already have down the unsolicited advice from playing golf. I'm a good if not great golfer (single digit handicap) and nothing is more annoying than the swing coach giving you a tip when you didn't ask for it. Particularly when the swing coach just triple bogeyed the previous hole.

Re: Helping friends get better
 

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I think the 'poker school' concept is a great way to learn to play better. As your friends get better you will have to improve also.

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As the saying goes, you can shear a sheep many times, but you can only skin him once. I did one of those poker schools, too, intended for beginners. Extra cheap chips, and everyone showed after the river for a discussion. It was only a mediocre success, though. Some of the really bad players refused to show up, insulted that I'd invite them to such a thing, and the better players were upset that I didn't invite them over for the "easy money". The weak players who did come learned a lot about how to play (6-handed, anyway), and they're better players for it. I merely won enough to cover the beer I drank that night.

I'd do it again if I could find enough beginners who were willing to get together on the same night, but I think a lot of them are afraid of our game now.