Is this dreadful? 44 on Party 3/6
 

First posted hand, how's it look?

My opponent is a TAG, 19/12.5/2.5 550 hands.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is Button with 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG folds, <font color="#CC3333">CO caps</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (10.33 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">CO bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.16 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">CO bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (8.16 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">CO bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 10.16 BB

3-bet pf to isolate.(?) Cap scary, villain 12.5 pfr. Worth it calling down?

Re: Is this dreadful? 44 on Party 3/6
 

I fold preflop, but with tight blinds and a high post flop fold % for CO, it could be reasonable. He's stealing a large range here but you're at most only slightly ahead.

If we consider villain reasonable, we can assume that most of the time he'll have TT+, AK,AQs (maybe AQo and even lower depending on his read on us).

Once the flop comes, calling down is okay, also raising the turn for a free showdown works since he probably won't raise a worse hand. If he just calls the turn you can even consider value betting the river for UI AK if a rag falls.

Any turn or river cards you folding to instead of calling down?

It's not dreadful and I don't think we can find a fold anywhere postflop with that board and action.

Re: Is this dreadful? 44 on Party 3/6
 

PF is pretty bad, I'd fold, and calling is better than 3-betting. Postflop is ok, Villain probably thinks your handrange is weighted towards AK-AJ so he may be valuebetting AK. I'd also consider a turn raise/fold, river freeshowdown since you'll get the same number of bets in vs overs as calling down, he may incorrectly fold overs, and its a easy fold to a 3-bet vs this Villain.

Re: Is this dreadful? 44 on Party 3/6
 

Preflop, I generally fold 66 or lower to a raise with someone yet to act behind me, especially when the raiser happens to be a TAG such as you describe.

Since you did play the hand, calling to the river doesn't seem bad to me, because it's very possible that every street missed him considering the range of overcards that he's likely to raise with.

If he raised a pocket pair or xT, you're screwed, but you might as well find out how badly.

Re: Is this dreadful? 44 on Party 3/6
 

[ QUOTE ]
PF is pretty bad, I'd fold, and calling is better than 3-betting.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. With one more player limping cold calling is the way to go. Here I would probably just toss 44 in the muck. 3 betting is wild maniac style.

After the flop calling down seems like a bad plan unless you have a read/note on the guy that he will keep firing with unimproved overcards.

Re: Is this dreadful? 44 on Party 3/6
 

Once you have taken this line pre-flop then you want to see a showdown on this board and for as cheaply as possible. I would raise the flop bet but either fold to a 3 bet or call and fold the turn UI. If he only calls your raise, which he will do most of the time without a big PP, then bet the turn and check the river through. If check/raised on turn then drop it.

This way you save the extra small bet if behind and may on your better days even get him to drop a hand like 88 or 55 on the turn which have you crushed. I would not count too highly on that one though.

If you take this line and get donked on the river then against a TAG you probably have to fold. Just my 2 cents worth.

Re: Is this dreadful? 44 on Party 3/6
 

You have to fold preflop. If you dont then you have to give it up either on the flop or on the turn.

Re: Is this dreadful? 44 on Party 3/6
 

like everyone has said, your pf play is bad. Why are you trying to isolate (which is A LOT harder to do when another limper is in the hand) a rock with a hand like 44?

Re: Is this dreadful? 44 on Party 3/6
 

Fold PF. Post flop is interesting. I don't think call down is bad on that board.

Re: Is this dreadful? 44 on Party 3/6
 

The 3-bet isn't as bad as everyone is saying, mostly because we don't have enough information. If blinds are tight and he has a 28 WTSD and is generally weak post-flop, it's OK. He could easily be stealing from the CO. It's not a huge edge, but it could be a marginal one worth pushing. I just don't know based one what you told us. Stats only say so much.

Post-flop, I like Stealthy's plan. Calling down isn't so great unless he's a donkey or tricky. He's not value betting AK or AQ on the river that often, given a typical cap range of TT+, AQs+. If he takes you for another TAG, he should know you're 3-betting on the button with something like AJ+ (maybe AT), KQ, maybe 55 or 66+. He knows you could be holding a lot of pairs, and your play so far is showdown bound on a raggedy board. Trying to get to showdown for less than 2.5 BBs is in your best interest. So if he's pretty straightforward post-flop, I like a flop raise and folding to a 3-bet or turn c/r.

Re: Is this dreadful? 44 on Party 3/6
 

For what it is worth as well you played this very inconsitently throughout. If you are going to 3 bet pre-flop with a small pair then you have to be representing something bigger. Passively calling it down here after 3 betting does not seem to gain you much rather than being able to pick off unimproved high card bluffing. Given the pre-flop cap I think you need to raise the flop and basically say "I don't care what you have I have the best hand". If he still fires back after you have shown such strength then you can fold gracefully before you end up paying the full show-down calling price.

I don't even think I would even 3 bet a 25%+ pre-flop raisor with 44 though, a little too much of a high maintenance hand for my liking. Even a crappy hand like 87 off has decent chances against you and you could be miles behind to a better PP.

Re: Is this dreadful? 44 on Party 3/6
 

You say that about 44, but a lot of players will raise 66 in that spot in a heartbeat, even though connectors like 87 still has solid equity against you.

It has to be based on reads. 3-betting gives you the advantage of making players make bad folds against you (i.e. not peeling with QTs or calling down with 77 on an A high flop). If he sucks postflop and folds too much, it could be worth it. If you just thought "he's probably stealing, raise!!" then it's a bad move.

Re: Is this dreadful? 44 on Party 3/6
 

[ QUOTE ]
You say that about 44, but a lot of players will raise 66 in that spot in a heartbeat, even though connectors like 87 still has solid equity against you.

It has to be based on reads. 3-betting gives you the advantage of making players make bad folds against you (i.e. not peeling with QTs or calling down with 77 on an A high flop). If he sucks postflop and folds too much, it could be worth it. If you just thought "he's probably stealing, raise!!" then it's a bad move.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that there is a place for re-raising mid-low pairs but if I am doing this then I want control of the hand and want to take that control on the flop. If I cannot get it then I would rather fold then see an expensive showdown where I am probably staring at a decent made hand.