Opinions on Online Odds Calculators
 

I was just curious as to some of your opinions about odds calculators for internet poker sites (such as Texas Calculatem, which is posted on SuprNova.org almost every single day).

Before I say what I have to say, I should point out that I have NEVER used such a program in a real money game. I did however try out the program (Texas Calculatem) on a few play money games to see how it worked.

I have several opinions on odds calculators (or poker cheating programs, as they probably should be called).

1. It's cheating. Its equivalent to taking a laptop computer to the poker table in a brick and mortar casino, and running calculations on it. This would get you barred from every casino I've ever heard of.

2. A good player would not need to use such a program, since he / she probably already knows the odds and, more importantly, how to apply them.

3. This kind of program isn't that helpful anyway. It won't help you to maximise your wins and minimise your losses, or help you decide when it is profitable to draw based on pot and implied odds, or tell you when to bluff, or tell you how much to bet (in a SL/NL/PL game). Odds are only part of the game and knowing them isnt enought to make you a good player.

4. The program may actually make you a worse player, as by following it's advice you aren't thinking about all of the factors important in poker, just the odds. It would make you predictable and easy to read - if the flop comes A-6-2, and you bet, you have at least an ace with a reasonable kicker. If you check, you have one of the lower pairs or less. Simple as that.

My overall opinion is while that I think odds calculators are cheating, and any person caught using one should be immediately banned, I don't find them threatening enough to stop playing hold'em online, especially when some of the games are so lucrative. I consider myself a good enough player to pick up on the predictable play of people using these odds calculators. I do, however, think something should be done because the use of such programs may discourage some of the weaker players from playing in the first place.

I'm curious to know what online poker rooms have to say about odds calculators, and whether they consider them a threat. I'm also curious what the rest of you have to say...

Alex

Re: Opinions on Online Odds Calculators
 

What is an odds calculator? Is that like a thing where you match up two hands against each other? Or is where you match up your hand against a range of hands? Or is it where you figure out how many outs you have and whether you have the pot odds to call?

If it is a match up device I think it would be nominally +EV. A good player will already know whether to call fold or raise based on the action. The only place it would be usable is in a close situation. These programs take a while to load stuff into and get numbers out of, so they arne't of any use when you are multitabling.

As far as doing odds, I just have a cheat sheet in front of me with outs to odds numbers on it. I rarely have to use it anymore, I know when it is right to call on a draw or fold on the river based on pot size.

Re: Opinions on Online Odds Calculators
 

You're being ridiculous, what if I brought a calculator to a poker table, that would get me banned?

Here's the bottom line-

1. They are not cheating.
2. My guess is that they slow down games
3. People who use them obviously cannot calculate odds and most likely don't know how to play poker very well, therefore I welcome people who use them at my table.
4. Finally, do they really give you that much of an advantage? NO. what do they give you? NOTHING.

Re: Opinions on Online Odds Calculators
 

[ QUOTE ]
You're being ridiculous, what if I brought a calculator to a poker table, that would get me banned?


[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, in a lot of places, bringing and using a calculator at the table is banned and would probably get your thrown out.

I'm quite surprised at how few people consider the use of these kinds of programs to be cheating. I think that the integrity of online poker needs to be protected if it is to continue to attract players and their money...

Alex

Re: Opinions on Online Odds Calculators
 

that would get me banned?

It would in England, however I agree with the rest of your post.

Lori

Re: Opinions on Online Odds Calculators
 

I do not think its cheating. And I agree with ebranig in the fact that I would almost prefer to play with people who NEED to use a poker calculator while playing 1-2/2-5 NL.

Understanding the odds and outs are obviously a pretty huge part of being a great poker player. However, reading betting patterns and just overall playing experience are just as equal.

Think about it, would you complain if you had a million hands played in your lifetime and some fool with five thousand hands played sits down at your table with a calculator? I would look at them and tell them to take their time.

Re: Opinions on Online Odds Calculators
 

Do you think it's cheating to look at starting hand chart or a list of hand groupings? To most people, a staring hand chart would be a lot more helpful than a program telling you that you're about a 5-1 dog to hit your open-ended straight on the turn.

IMO, the obvious answers to the poll question are no, no, no, and no.

Re: Opinions on Online Odds Calculators
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm quite surprised at how few people consider the use of these kinds of programs to be cheating. I think that the integrity of online poker needs to be protected if it is to continue to attract players and their money...


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I think it's hilarious that you think odds calculators somehow subvert the integrity of the game. Have you seen those Tom McEvoy ads on TV, plugging his odds charts that show how hands match up against each other heads-up? He even recommends bringing the charts to the poker table with you. I for one would welcome and buy drinks for anyone who sat down at my table with those charts. It's the same issue with odds calculators online.

If you want to worry about something subverting the integrity of the online game, worry about collusion and all-in abuse. (Not that I think these are worth losing sleep over, but they are certainly a bigger issue than odds calculators.)