Three pair on flop ... what to do??
 

1/2 game, early on, no real reads. I'm in the SB with A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 10 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. I complete after one MP, CO, and button call. BB checks. Flop comes A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 10 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. I bet. BB calls, MP calls, CO raises, Button calls the two bets. I decide to fold. Everyone else calls. Turn is 10 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. It gets checked around. River is 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Gets checked around again. Button ends up winning with an ace in his hand for two pair, aces and tens. CO shows QJ42, two clubs. He raised the flop with a gutshot straight draw, second nut flush draw, and second nut low draw. A part of me is angry he raised, since if he didn't, I would have won a nice pot. Then again, him raising there shows he does not really know what he's doing so its good that he's at my table in the long run. Did I play this wrong? Should I have just laid it down preflop? Should I have check/folded or check/called the flop? I decided to fold because I put the CO on a set with his raise. Plus the two clubs scared me and I thought I was probably playing for half the pot. What do you think?

Re: Three pair on flop ... what to do??
 

I would check/fold on the flop. Essentially you are playing for 1/2 a pot. You have 6 outs (not including a 4,4 runner runner) for a boat with a small pot. If this is too weak/tight I'm sure someone will correct me.

Re: Three pair on flop ... what to do??
 

As Zehn,

I understand what you are saying and it's probably the the safest route...

but look at that flop again. A 6 10 What could the raiser have? Is it a set of aces? Maybe. Is it likely? I don't think so.

The easiest hand to put the raiser on would be A 2 3.

A nut low draw with the pair of aces.

We aren't playing for half the pot....yet. Are we still drawing? Sure. But I think we have a very good chance to take down this pot.

Ok, if I think I'm ahead here on the high side, should I reraise here? I don't think so. I want the nut lows to come along for the ride as best as possible. A low draw will call one bet cold, but when you get up to 2 bets, they tend to shy away.

Unimproved, I check call this down to the river.

Improved, I check/raise the turn. And bet the river.

Dave

Re: Three pair on flop ... what to do??
 

Dave:

I agree with your logic other than the fact that the pot is so small. With only 3 bets pf do you really want to call a bet?

Re: Three pair on flop ... what to do??
 

I would not fold this hand PF for half of a bet.

When you get raised on the flop, I would call. There are 12 small bets in the pot and it is likely you will get two more from the players who called your opening bet. So I think you have good enough odds to draw to your full house even if you are only playing for half the pot. Why be afraid of a flush draw when you are trying to make a full house? There are a wide range of hands that the raiser could be playing. I think laying your hand down was a mistake.

If you fear getting raised then a better course of action would be to check and call.

Re: Three pair on flop ... what to do??
 

Very good point. One that I didn't look at.

Dave

Re: Three pair on flop ... what to do??
 

I MIGHT fold to a three-bet, but for one bet, check/call it down unless the board gets scary with lows/flushes/easy straights.

Re: Three pair on flop ... what to do??
 

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Dave:

I agree with your logic other than the fact that the pot is so small. With only 3 bets pf do you really want to call a bet?

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So are you suggesting folding preflop?

Re: Three pair on flop ... what to do??
 

Not preflop, but I would probably check/fold after seeing this flop.

Re: Three pair on flop ... what to do??
 

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Did I play this wrong?

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Lonn - Yes.

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Should I have just laid it down preflop?

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No.

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Should I have check/folded or check/called the flop?

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No.

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I decided to fold because I put the CO on a set with his raise.

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You mis-read your opponent. Not a big deal. It's a mistake we all make from time to time.

In my humble opinion, you need to be more tenacious.

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Plus the two clubs scared me...

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The two clubs are not scary, since you probably will need to improve to a full house to win.

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... and I thought I was probably playing for half the pot.

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You were not quite playing for half the pot, because if the board pairs (which you should figure it needs to do for you to win), 23 cards enable low here while the other 21 don't. Low is more likely than not if the board doesn't pair, but if the board pairs on the turn, then low is almost an even proposition on the river (only 23 to 21 in favor of low).

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What do you think?

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A raise here doesn't necessarily mean a flopped set. (Maybe it should, but in general, it doesn't).

You have to gird your loins and call the raise.

Buzz