BR for 4-way play
 

I have a question regarding making the move to 4-way play, and it concerns bankroll. I play limit games.

The rule of thumb I've been going by is, for any given limit, buy in for 25 big bets but keep a bank roll of 500 big bets. This has me buying in a 1/2 game for fifty bucks with 2k in reserve.

Now when I start playing 1/2 4-way, I'll be buying in for fifty bucks four times.

I'm wondering do I need a larger reserve (since I'm now risking two hundred bucks at a time and not fifty)

or

will my two thousand be enough (since I'm still only risking fifty bucks at any one table)?

What's the rule of thumb here?

Re: BR for 4-way play
 

When multi tabling, you're just getting hands in faster, so you don't really need a bigger bankroll.

Re: BR for 4-way play
 

2k is plenty for playing 1/2 limit. Look at it this way, you're not really changing your stakes by 4-tabling. In theory you are only speeding up the rate at which your bankroll would have increased or decreased anyway. Of course, this is assuming that playing 4 tables at once will not affect your winrate.

Re: BR for 4-way play
 

500 BB at 1-2 is $1000 not $2000

Re: BR for 4-way play
 

2k for 1/2 is might large....

Re: BR for 4-way play
 

500Big bets is a bit excessive. 300 should be more then enough. also 2k is 1000 big bets. so you are absolutely in the clear for 1/2. Multitablingh will actually decrease your variance so you don't need to up the bankroll.

Re: BR for 4-way play
 

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500Big bets is a bit excessive.

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No, it's not.

I had 1,500.

Re: BR for 4-way play
 

for 1/2? I understand the need for big buffers at high stakes, but if you are a winning player at 1/2 it is unnecessary. If you are learning to play, that's another matter(or learning to multibable).

Re: BR for 4-way play
 

unless you plan on goin on a 400 bb downswing at 1/2, 500 bb is really excessive. and if you go on that big of a downswing.. maybe you should play pai gow, not texas hold em.

Re: BR for 4-way play
 

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500Big bets is a bit excessive.

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No, it's not.

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Re: BR for 4-way play
 

I've gone on a 450 BB downswing.

Do you want to argue I'm not a winning player?

Re: BR for 4-way play
 

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unless you plan on goin on a 400 bb downswing at 1/2, 500 bb is really excessive.

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I don't think anyone ever plans to go on a 400 bb downswing, and yet.....

And I was wrong, 500 bb at 1/2 is, indeed, $1000.00, not $2000.00. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Re: BR for 4-way play
 

[ QUOTE ]
I've gone on a 450 BB downswing.

Do you want to argue I'm not a winning player?

[/ QUOTE ]

Losing 800 dollars at 1/2 before dropping down to .50/1 is a retarded thing to do. If you lost 800 bucks at 1/2 then you were playing bad poker, on drugs, on tilt for an absurdly long time, or the unluckiest person alive.

Re: BR for 4-way play
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I've gone on a 450 BB downswing.

Do you want to argue I'm not a winning player?

[/ QUOTE ]

Losing 800 dollars at 1/2 before dropping down to .50/1 is a retarded thing to do. If you lost 800 bucks at 1/2 then you were playing bad poker, on drugs, on tilt for an absurdly long time, or the unluckiest person alive.

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It happens. Besides good bank roll habits should begin at the lower levels. If you're carrying only 300 as you move up you <u>will</u> lose it eventually.

Re: BR for 4-way play
 

[ QUOTE ]
I've gone on a 450 BB downswing.

Do you want to argue I'm not a winning player?

[/ QUOTE ]

i might want to argue that your play was probably not consistent of a winning player over the entire stretch

Re: BR for 4-way play
 

You do not need a bigger bankroll for playing four tables than for one table provided you play the exact same way. As someone noted, you're not moving to four times your original stakes; you're just making the hands happen four times faster.

In practice, we all play a little differently with more tables. I feel most people play better with two tables than one (less temptation to limp in on poor cards.) Moving to three and then four will probably impact your play in the other direction, though, until you get used to occasionally being on four hands at once.

Since the quality of your play will go down, you might be wise to keep a slightly bigger bankroll.

As well, your possible swing size per hour will increase. You'll often get the good tables matching bad table to minimize the change, but you have the potential for much bigger gains and losses in short periods of times. This takes tougher psychological stuff to handle. That's another good reason for a bigger bankroll; a $500 loss feel awful on a $1000 bankroll, while it's easy to stomache against $2500.

Lastly, you also need to remember the 300BB guideline is based on a providing a decent likelihood of not losing it all, assuming you are a good player. Are you really good enough?

If you're good enough, the 300BB bankroll gives a strong likelihood of not tapping out. It's not a guarantee. In fact, there's a significant chance of tapping out a 300BB bankroll. It's small, but possible.

Tapping out a $1/$2 bankroll is not a crusher. It can be replaced from other earnings (flip burgers for a month.) But if your game is $5/$10 and you've built a $5/$10 bankroll which is way more dispsable income than you put away in many months, you do NOT want your bankroll to tap out, ever.

So, how much is the right bankroll for you?

If you are really a good player and adjust well to the new game, you're just fine with 300BB. If you could replace the bankroll by trimming a few weeks of paychecks, then you can run a little more risky -- such as playing at levels where you're not yet sure of your relative skill level, such as 4-tabling.

On the other hand, if you've only played, say, 20,000 hands, then you don't really know your win rate. You're pretty sure you're a winner, but not by how much. Consider your entire bankroll at risk playing at 300BB. And if the bankroll is so big relative to your earnings that you can't replace it, stick with more than 300BB no matter how good your are.

Re: BR for 4-way play
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I've gone on a 450 BB downswing.

Do you want to argue I'm not a winning player?

[/ QUOTE ]

i might want to argue that your play was probably not consistent of a winning player over the entire stretch

[/ QUOTE ]

Eh, perhaps. I think I was a marginal winner even while I was seeing triple and crap though. Definitely not a big one for a while though.

Re: BR for 4-way play
 

[ QUOTE ]
I've gone on a 450 BB downswing.

Do you want to argue I'm not a winning player?

[/ QUOTE ]
You may play limit better than I do, but I would bet that my win rate when I play $1-$2 is much higher than your win rate at whatever limit you had that 450 BB downswing.

Bankroll requirements are proportional to SD^2/WR. Doubling your win rate cuts your bankroll requirements in half and vice versa. Huge downswings are usually caused by low win rates. Someone crushing a microlimit game with 150 BB may be safer than an expert in a tough game with 500 BB.

Re: BR for 4-way play
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I've gone on a 450 BB downswing.

Do you want to argue I'm not a winning player?

[/ QUOTE ]

i might want to argue that your play was probably not consistent of a winning player over the entire stretch

[/ QUOTE ]

Eh, perhaps. I think I was a marginal winner even while I was seeing triple and crap though. Definitely not a big one for a while though.

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I will just note that 10 tabling on no sleep for a few days... is not a winning strategy [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: BR for 4-way play
 

Normally you dont need a bigger roll, but i had a few times a 200-300BB downswing. And if it happens in the beginning you are underrolled.

Re: BR for 4-way play
 

This is 1/2, and the OP did not specify if he's doing 6 max or full ring. If it's full ring, 300BB is plenty for 1/2. There are enough horrible players and donators that even a downswing should put you in decent shape. Short handed I think 1k would be in order. Remember, he's playing at 1/2, not 10/20, the games are more passive and there are a lot more fish, and way fewer sharks. This will "pad" downswings and keep them from being as high.

-dustyn