I played this hand so bad
 

Final table of 150 last night.

Holdem_NL raises in early position. I respect him. He made it 12k with 2k/4k blinds and I had 60k behind in MP, he had slightly more.

I decided to flat call with AA.

Barf. I can't do this crap versus good players with this stack. A little shallower or deeper... Fine. Right?

-Jason

Re: I played this hand so bad
 

It's either flatcall or push. A lot of it depends on where a 50k stack compared to the competition, but I like pushing. His hand range is likely strong enough to call allin preflop.

Re: I played this hand so bad
 

Well, the thing is, you have no idea where you're at on the flop. You know that your aces have at least an 80% chance of winning against the villain's holdings, but you really have no idea where you're at if the flop comes with three to broadway, excluding an ace. I suppose you'd have to reraise in this position.

Re: I played this hand so bad
 

How much deeper are you thinking? Once the stacks start getting sufficiently deep then I'm not wild about the slowplay because I don't think you'll get enough in implied odds to make up for what you'd get by playing it quickly, but I don't have a good sense in my head for where I think the crossover is.

I also don't really get the shallower comment. How often with 9 BBs are you flat calling a 3 BB raise with anything in MP? Maybe this is too much shallower, but it seems like unless for metagame reasons (you make it sound like you've played with this guy before) he won't put you on a big pair, this seems like a big pair. And if you're talking more like 12 BB instead, I confess that I don't see how it's qualitatively vastly different.

Re: I played this hand so bad
 

a push gives him 1.7:1 to call... how deep was his stack?

If you were much shorter (and were going to end up all in nomatter what) and wanted to encourage action behind you maybe i'd flat call.. and i think you'd have to be alot deeper for me to consider flat calling.

Re: I played this hand so bad
 

The only reason I'd flat call with AA with a shorter stack is because there were some weak players at the table that might put $$ in the pot if I flat call and might fold if I dont. If it was like a respectable table I'd just shove it in.

Now when I'm deeper I'll flat call a lot there because often a continuation bet on the flop might get close to pot committing someone... Also since I'll flat call with more than just aces my flat call wont spook my opponent.

-Jason

Re: I played this hand so bad
 

Soooo, you had aces that hand...

I remember seeing that right after I busted in 9th, and wondering what you had.

Holdem_NL claimed he had xx (EDIT: I shouldn't say what he said he had) in the chatbox... I don't know if he was lying or not. I'd say his calling range isn't as wide as you might think clay, because his opening range is probably higher than one might think. If I recall correctly this was 7 handed (8 maybe?) and I think he could be opening, even utg with some speculative hands, decent suited aces, good suited connectors, and small pairs, so I don't mind taking a flop and hoping he hits it somewhat (although not with the small pairs obviously).

I think it's unfortunate that he didn't hit the flop, and very often this play will work. I probably would have not thought about it enough, and pushed, but I definitely don't mind a cold call-- unless you have played so much with him that he would immidiatly recognize this as a trap, and check/fold 66 on 238, or something like that.

Re: I played this hand so bad
 

With this size stack, do you flat call with anything else? JJ, TT, maybe?

Edit: i guess it doesn't matter much because if he hits the flop for TPTK or TP2K, he's giving you his stack whether he thinks you're probably trapping or not. And if he flops a decent draw, it probably gets in there just as easily.

The real question is whether he folds enough hands to the raise that pay you off when they hit one pair to make up for

1. letting those same hands see the flop and outflop you

plus

2. letting high cards or medium pairs that miss the flop or flop overcards get away when they would have put money in preflop.

Seems too likely you are giving up too much value preflop, given that most hands miss most flops and your flat call declares too much strength to assume a continuation bet will come from a solid player who misses the flop. What about a minraise or close... to say 2500 or 2800? Tough for him to lay down a decent hand for 1200-1500 more, builds a pot and confuses just enough to get him to give you his stack when he flops decent.

Re: I played this hand so bad
 

[ QUOTE ]
I decided to flat call with AA

[/ QUOTE ]

With these stacks I like to mini-raise vs good players, they just can resist the pot odds. Preflop, and then in the flop.

Re: I played this hand so bad
 

The only other thought I have is that if there is a couple people behind you who likes to see flops and have a lot of chips (especially the BB who now has pretty enticing odds if he has a deep enough stack to lose 8k comfortably), you may be ok trying to bring them along for a big pot.

On the other hand, seeing that you are in MP (I missed that before), it is hard for me to come up with another hand that would flat call here with this stack. JJ and TT pretty much have to raise to shut out the rest of the field. But how suspicious your hand looks probably isn't too critical when this shallow.