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-   -   typical limit v. no limit questions (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=402688)

siegfriedandroy 12-21-2005 09:56 AM

typical limit v. no limit questions
 
perhaps (in reference to my just completed post) i should reevaluate whether my time is best spent at limit. i have read most of harrington's book, and find most of that info pretty basic. lately whenever i play, i will screw around with the 100 buy in no limit game (just as a diversion from multitabling limit), and it seems the game is extraordinarily great. but perhaps this is simply comparable to the typical, 8 to the flop fishfest in limit anywhere below 10/20 or so.

1) ballpark, what limit is $100 nl comparable to in limit? what can a good player expect in such games if favorable (i.e. 1.5-2.5ish bb/100 in limit)

2) with the best games at this level, with horrible players habitually risking their entire stacks with mediocre holdings, etc., is nut - peddling a reasonable, legit strategy? to me this game seems comparable to a low limit 4/8 game at the bike, where 70% see the flop with sh*t and play terribly after. in such a game i would never bluff. in the nl game, i bluff occassionally (but still rarely) and only in certain, low risk situations. so far ive done well nutpeddlling, but only over a small sample. basically, i am curious as to generally how far nut peddling can take you in no limit (especially online, which brings me to #3...)

3) online no limit - please briefly sketch to me (a nl noob) how the nl game generally differs between live and online. i assume more aggressive, just like limit? also, how many tables can the best pros play without reaching diminishing returns?

4) changing gears - i read on that 'basic strategy nl' post a couple days ago that changing gears is bad advice. why? doesnt harrington advocate this in his book?

5) harrington's book: in the past i read that harrington's book applies equally well to tourneys and cash games, even though the book discusses almost strictly tourney examples. is this true? lehigh guy said no. if not, then what are, and where can i find, a brief synopsis of the general differences between cash and tourneys?

6) good lags - apparently, some people who play like maniacs can be good nl players (which i believe could almost never be true in limit - at least if you're seeing like 1/2 the flops, raising 1/3 of the time, etc). what is the best way to learn about (and consider implementing) such technique? or at least, what are some good ways to spot whether or not a particular lag in my game is good or fish? i assume that some plays are so blatantly 'bad' as to offer pretty good evidence. but what is a good way to recognize sharks who simply play (very well) with such a style?

7) thank you

12-21-2005 05:56 PM

Re: typical limit v. no limit questions
 
1. Don't play limit, therefore I'm not qualified to answer that question.
2. Nutpeddling is fine at the low stakes, loose tables. Lots of loose players, calling stations, etc. Very difficult to bluff since many will go to the river with very questionable holdings.
3. Pretty similar, online .10-.25 is similar to live $1-$2.
4. Changing gears doesn't mean anything at the low limits, most of them don't pay attention to how you're playing, they only pay attention to the two cards in their hands.
5. HOH 1 would not be a bad book for a new NL player, even at the cash games. You need discipline and patience at a cash game. There is no need to take unecessary risks like moving in with A high when you're short-stacked since you can always reload. Generally the blind to stack ratio is favorable meaning you can wait for quality starting hands.
6. The same way as you do in limit. How many hands do they play and in what positions, how do they bet their hands, etc. Most sites offer the ability to take notes, utilize this resource. Makes notes of players that can be bluffed. There are a lot of players that defend their blinds too much, punish them. The point of NL is to punish people for mistakes by taking their stack.

bobbyi 12-21-2005 06:08 PM

Re: typical limit v. no limit questions
 
I'm not any good at no limit, but I'll try to help with the few things I know.

[ QUOTE ]
ballpark, what limit is $100 nl comparable to in limit?

[/ QUOTE ]
Very roughly around 3/6 - 5/10.

[ QUOTE ]
online no limit - please briefly sketch to me (a nl noob) how the nl game generally differs between live and online.

[/ QUOTE ]
One notable difference is that the stack sizes are often larger online relative to the blinds. Most casino $200 buyin games have 2/5 or 3/5 blinds, where the $200 games online generally have 1/2 blinds.

[ QUOTE ]
harrington's book: in the past i read that harrington's book applies equally well to tourneys and cash games, even though the book discusses almost strictly tourney examples.

[/ QUOTE ]
Volume I has stuff that I found helpful for cash games, even though the book is about tournaments. The large majority of Volume II is tournament-specific and much less applicable to cash games.

siegfriedandroy 12-21-2005 09:14 PM

Re: typical limit v. no limit questions
 
hey thanks for the responses guys. look forward to hearing any others. perhaps the best way to learn is to start at a low game and just keep reading the forums.

lehighguy 12-22-2005 12:04 AM

Re: typical limit v. no limit questions
 
1) You can win 8BB/100 in NL, 2BB/100 in limit (without having to crush it).

2) I nut peddle at 600NL, but its not quite as effective. I bluff occasionally, more then I used to. But I'm still a tag.

3) People are much rockier in online NL.

4) Yeah, turn checkraises freak them out.

5) Dunno

6) This is a very difficult and advanced strategy. It could take years of study. It could take less if your a natural.

lehighguy 12-22-2005 04:59 AM

Re: typical limit v. no limit questions
 
Biggest lesson I learned in 600NL:
Sometimes huge overbets make sense.

siegfriedandroy 12-22-2005 04:35 PM

Re: typical limit v. no limit questions
 
anyone else? how high online can you win by just nutpeddling?

MrEngenic 12-22-2005 05:31 PM

Re: typical limit v. no limit questions
 
Quote:
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ballpark, what limit is $100 nl comparable to in limit?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Very roughly around 3/6 - 5/10.


This can't be right, 3/6 limit is no piece of cake. I've heard it's much easier to move up the first limits in NL.

Isura 12-22-2005 05:54 PM

Re: typical limit v. no limit questions
 
1) 2/4 - 3/6

2) Nudpeddling works okay at nl25-50 (and at nl100 to some extent). But even at nl100 there are a ton of weak-tight nits. Also, preflop stats are basically irrelevant in NL. Some of my favorite fish at the nl100 game are 24/4 type guys.

3)Online is much tighter, and generally more aggressive.

4) Changing gears is not very important at the low stakes, since not many people are paying attention. Although your profits will be more if you atleast consider table image and past history during a hand.

5) Vol 1 of Harrington is great for cash games. Also read super system and Reuben/Ciaffone's NL book.

6) There are many winning styles at NL. But the tight and conservative (doesn't mean aggressive) is the probably the best approach for a new player. You can learn new styles by watching other winning players and learning from them.

7) Your welcome.

bobbyi 12-22-2005 07:21 PM

Re: typical limit v. no limit questions
 
[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ballpark, what limit is $100 nl comparable to in limit?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Very roughly around 3/6 - 5/10.


This can't be right, 3/6 limit is no piece of cake. I've heard it's much easier to move up the first limits in NL.

[/ QUOTE ]
I was talking mainly about achievable win rate and typical variance. If you win 7 PTBB/100 at $100NL, you make $14 per 100 hands. That's roughly equivalent to winning 2BB/100 at a ~3/6 - 5/10 limit game.

As someone who plays almost entirely limit, I would consider a 3/6 limit game pretty much anywher to be a "piece of cake" and I have had trouble moving up in limits at NL.


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