10/20 Q9o preflop
 

shant was sweating me tonight and he didn't like this.

The limper is 60/10/.93, the SB is 22/6 and the BB is 22/10 and both are fairly weak.

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (9 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

Preflop: I am Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, I call

Re: 10/20 Q9o preflop
 

in this case to be honest, its either raise to iso, or fold PF, I just don't see much logic behind calling. Since the blinds are fairly tight, I'd raither raise this PF and take the initiave in this pot

Re: 10/20 Q9o preflop
 

[ QUOTE ]
in this case to be honest, its either raise to iso, or fold PF, I just don't see much logic behind calling. Since the blinds are fairly tight, I'd raither raise this PF and take the initiave in this pot

[/ QUOTE ]

Initiative against a guy this passive isn't worth that much and increasing the size of the pot and decreasing the errors he makes postflop when I have a hand with little showdown value also doesn't seem worth it.

Re: 10/20 Q9o preflop
 

if you feel that is the case, then IMO, folding is best. I can see a limp here if its soooted, but I just dunno as is. We have relatively tight blinds, so if we feel that we have any FE on the flop and/or turn, then raising works, but since that might not be the case, I just move onto the next hand

Re: 10/20 Q9o preflop
 

[ QUOTE ]
if you feel that is the case, then IMO, folding is best. I can see a limp here if its soooted, but I just dunno as is. We have relatively tight blinds, so if we feel that we have any FE on the flop and/or turn, then raising works, but since that might not be the case, I just move onto the next hand

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't see how what I said implies that folding is best.

Re: 10/20 Q9o preflop
 

[ QUOTE ]

Initiative against a guy this passive

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A 60/10/.93 isn't actually that passive -- he may be playing a reasonable postflop game (at least in comparison to his preflop game [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]). I don't know though, you were at the table. But his stats indicate that you may have some fold equity against this guy, and that he probably isn't a total calling station.

That being said, I just think Q9o is too weak -- we don't have a much (if any) equity against his limping hand (in fact you are really relying on position and outplaying him), and there is still the danger of a decent hand in the blinds.

Re: 10/20 Q9o preflop
 

Folding &gt; Calling &gt; Raising. It's basically a gamble, and I think in this situation we have position and post-flop skill on our side, but a weak hand, small pot, and lack of initiative against us. In the long run I see this play being, if not neutral EV, slightly -EV, but as an exercise it'll be fun to see discussed.

By the way, if one of the blinds raises, I think we should fold despite the improved pot odds. And how's that going to look for our image?

EDIT: Just looked in PT. No big surprise, since I only play Q9o in the BB for free, but my stats say QTo is a +.02bb/100 winner, and Q9o is a (.03)bb/100 loser -- over 37k hands, with about 350 occurrences each.

Re: 10/20 Q9o preflop
 

So you had the opportunity to get involved on the button in a pot with 1 single MP limping fish and these guys are telling you to fold? I prefer to raise to hopefully get HU in position against a bad player but calling's ok too, I guess. But playing lots of hands in position against bad players is my style--not necessarily for everybody.

Re: 10/20 Q9o preflop
 

Given the nature of the blinds, I'd rather raise here, but I don't think limping is bad. It's definitely a hand I want to play against someone like the limper, but for whatever reason, I don't like being the second limper into the pot.

Re: 10/20 Q9o preflop
 

I'm not saying that you felt that folding is best, I just think that given the situation, it is probably the best play, and that raising is the next best play. If we can gain FE and fold out the blinds, then we raise, if not, then I'm not bothering with this hand.

I generally like to take the lead in pots and what not. Against this villian, that would be the route that I would take if I was to play the hand. basically here this is how I'd go about this folding&gt;raising&gt;calling. I don't want this hand more then HU, and raising gives us the best chance for that if we are to play it. limping is just encouraging the sb to complete with good odds on almost any two cards, and obviously the BB is gonna check with any crap hand, do you really want to play this hand in a 4 way limped pot PF, I don't