Extracting value with top set
 

Just discovered this site--wow, you guys are so much better than rec.gambling.poker.

Here’s my situation. At the $200 max buy-in level (1/2 blinds), I sit down at the table, and get JJ in the BB on my first hand. It folds around to Villian in late position, who has accumulated an $800 stack. He raises to 8. It folds to me, and I reraise to $20. He calls.

Flop is Js 6c 3h. I immediately think about trying to double up on this hand. I check, thinking he hasn’t made anything, and will just fold if I bet. He checks behind. Turn is Tc. I bet $20, about half the pot. I’m hoping he’ll read me for AK that missed, and trying a weak bluff. Maybe he’ll try to intimidate me with a bluff raise. Nope. Fold.

Is there any way I could have gotten more out of this? I figure he probably had second-tier high cards (AQ to KJ), and thought he was behind even if I did have AK. If that’s right, then if I check the turn and see an ace, he still might not pay me off. Maybe I should have smooth called preflop, and let him bluff me?

Re: Extracting value with top set
 

Try to see things from villain's perspective. It was kinda suspicious for you to re-raise from the BB, check on an uncoordinated flop, and then see you make a "value/milking bet" on the turn, don't you think? He didn't bite. In your shoes, I would have bet 3/4 of the pot on the flop, acting as if I had an overpair (AA/KK/QQ) but didn't want to be pot-committed while out of position. Any AA/KK would've called or raised that in a heartbeat, while AK might be tempted to call.

My guess is that he had a middle pocket pair, raised with position, and didn't spike a set on the flop. Unfortunately, you checked on the flop to give him a free turn card. Still no set. Quick abort.

Re: Extracting value with top set
 

very nice post rich.

Re: Extracting value with top set
 

very hard to do with top set against a player with middle pair or just over cards. perfect scenerio for you would have been what got me 2 days ago. 1st hand in tourney AA to my delight so i make it 4x the big blind and it folds to one caller. flop comes q73 needless to say he had pocket queens and took almost my whole stack by checking since he had first position. an over pair will bet this flop everytime and a smooth call by the set tells the weaker hand that you have something but not the best had at the time. if you had had first position then you check and call his bets the whole way unless you ave serious reason to believe 4th or 5th made him a set higher then yours. check it until the river to let him catch up if you have to
(needless to say if there are flush or straight possibilities then your betting will be different but if you put him on middle pair or 2 overs with a rainbow, spaced apart flop then this is how you should do it). an amazing trap

Re: Extracting value with top set
 

[ QUOTE ]
I immediately think about trying to double up on this hand.
. . .
I check
. . .
I bet $20, about half the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

You say your goal is to double up, but your actions fit the mindset of "I have a great hand, I better make sure I at least get *something* out of it." The reality here is that not many hands are going to be interested in that board and if your opponent doesn't have one of them, then you will win nothing from them.

Re: Extracting value with top set
 

it sucks that he didnt make a hand. oh well. you dont get to choose when you want to double