a set against sonicboom
 

he is tight and aggressive, although more on the LAGish side of things. plays a game similar to mine maybe.

full game, 10-20NL on party. sonic has 2100 and i cover.

a bad player limps UTG, a tightish player limps EP, sonic raises to 80 in LP. I call next to act with JJ, (maybe button, maybe CO).

bad player calls and the nit folds.

flop: K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]10 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

bad player checks, sonic bets 200 (which is standard for him), I call and bad player folds.

turn(~$670): 3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]


eff. stack is 1800.

sonic thinks for the perfect amount of time and checks, I??

thanks,

fsuplayer

ps post your recommended action for all possibilities. ie: i think you should bet $X and (insert action here) if he raises/calls.

Re: a set against sonicboom
 

<crickets chirping>

Re: a set against sonicboom
 

$450.

If he checkraises allin I call.
If he calls and pushes a blank river I call.
If he calls and checks a blank river I push.

Re: a set against sonicboom
 

[ QUOTE ]
$450.

If he checkraises allin I call.
If he calls and pushes a blank river I call.
If he calls and checks a blank river I push.

[/ QUOTE ]

wow.

Re: a set against sonicboom
 

blah fu. i just realised this is a full game. fsu messages me hands all day long involving 2-6 players. i'm tired. nn!!!!

Re: a set against sonicboom
 

so you guys dont go broke here if he c/r?

i think i do [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: a set against sonicboom
 

Ya, I think I'd go broke to a c/r too. Too little info off sonicboom for a good read (raised a couple bad players preflop = big range, plus you said the flop bet was standard, right?). I mean, unless you want to give off a free card (on that board?), a bet is pretty much mandatory, and given stacks ANY action you get will have to be all-in. Since I think your hand is too strong to fold to a 2-bet, I'd go broke there.

Re: a set against sonicboom
 

i. check. turn.

Re: a set against sonicboom
 

[ QUOTE ]
$450.

If he checkraises allin I call.
If he calls and pushes a blank river I call.
If he calls and checks a blank river I push.

[/ QUOTE ]
i agree w/ this, but id bet 500-750.

Re: a set against sonicboom
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
$450.

If he checkraises allin I call.
If he calls and pushes a blank river I call.
If he calls and checks a blank river I push.

[/ QUOTE ]
i agree w/ this, but id bet 500-750.

[/ QUOTE ]



what hands are you ahead of that he CR's?

Re: a set against sonicboom
 

[ QUOTE ]
i. check. turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

i don't get it

Re: a set against sonicboom
 

checking the turn here, imo, is the worst thing you can do(weak-tight line). You have to define your hand here, I agree with flawless that anywhere between 500-700 is the right bet (more towards the 500 side, your stack can afford it). You have possiblility to get paid off from a bunch of hands (AK, KQ, TT from tight player). If you check and he's straight drawingAQ, QT, Q9 you give deadly free card, or say villain is on KJ,KTs you give free card for chance to suck King AND you give him bluff equity on a scare card (can't possibly call a bet from him w/o read if an Ace or Queen hits river even if it's smallish, he wouldn't put you on check check turn with straight).

Turn, Bet 500-675, if C/R with an all-in, you might have to let go, but I would have to look the odds...your definitely going to see good range here so if odds are right calling a push or pushing might be OK.

Re: a set against sonicboom
 

i'll just let fsu post thought process when he feels like it - we had the same ideas about it - so my explanation is probably same as his.

Re: a set against sonicboom
 

http://www.gabeleung.com/images/barf.jpg

Re: a set against sonicboom
 

[ QUOTE ]

what hands are you ahead of that he CR's?

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you joking?... you did say this:

[ QUOTE ]
he is tight and aggressive, although more on the LAGish side of things. plays a game similar to mine maybe.

[/ QUOTE ]

do you mean to say "he is awful, and a complete nit?" because unless you meant to say that you cant fold this turn.

Re: a set against sonicboom
 

seriously, dude.
that is wack...
plz delete.

Re: a set against sonicboom
 

2 late, unfortunately.

Re: a set against sonicboom
 

I hope you're talking about the picture, not the post :0

Re: a set against sonicboom
 

pot size bet, if c/r, then push. Hand is subject to being drawn out, enough in the pot with a pot size bet, take it down or be sucked out on.

Re: a set against sonicboom
 

Why is nobody speaking of raising the flop. I dont see the point of just calling with all the stright draws one might hit, all the more so becuase of the bad player UTG who will see the turn with just a qeen if you only call.

As it went down a pot bet on the turn and call an all in would be my play. You still beat KJ, or maybe KQ if he got carried away.

Re: a set against sonicboom
 

I prob bet 400 and dont mind getting it in here.

Re: a set against sonicboom
 

I havent played full ring in the longest time but a couple of comments/questions:

1) Why not raise the flop? Aren't there a ton of cards that could potentially kill your action/not allow you to bet/raise the turn? I assume you mix up your play on the flop and this is one of those times you decided just to call...?

2) Is there really a question about turn play? A check seems horrible. If you bet, you are going broke, right? Or are people folding JJ here in full ring? I know theres no chance I ever fold this SH.

Re: a set against sonicboom
 

for those who asked about the flop, i am smooth calling here for two reasons.

most importantly, if i raise, sonic is able to get off AA/AK maybe KQ very easily. basically, he folds almost all hands i dont want him to and pushes when im beat. only time he stacks here when im IMO is if he has KJ or 1010.

the second reason is that im hoping bad player comes along with his weak top pair.second pair type hand.

Re: a set against sonicboom
 

I talked so several people via IM about this hand and the consensus is that pf and flop are good, but there were differing opinions about the turn play.

at the time, I felt sonic's hand range that he would CR the turn all in was much smaller than did a couple of other players in the party games.

i felt he would only CR all in with 1010 or better here, but i think that is too narrow and that if he were planning to continue with AA/KJ/maybe AK type hands, that he is prob going to CR the turn all in if i bet. if that is true, then I really need to bet and call an all in on the turn.

whitelime- if this is SH'd, this flop is getting raised nearly everytime and ill beat him into the pot if he moves in.

Re: a set against sonicboom
 

so as it went, he checked the turn and I thought for a while and checked behind.

the river was an 8 and he bet 350.

he has 1200 left after this river bet.

now whats his hand range and whats our play?

Re: a set against sonicboom
 

I am well rested now. I think my advice was ok'ish. If the turn puts a flush draw out there I am playing it as I said.

Re: a set against sonicboom
 

looks like a block with AA/AK, shove? I feel like he might have to pay off with the line you took.

Re: a set against sonicboom
 

I really don't understand why you are so scared. Your description of the opponent does not match your paranoia regarding the strength of his hand.

Re: a set against sonicboom
 

[ QUOTE ]
so as it went, he checked the turn and I thought for a while and checked behind.

the river was an 8 and he bet 350.

he has 1200 left after this river bet.

now whats his hand range and whats our play?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is exactly why you need to bet the turn here. You are drawing live against AQ if you get it in on the turn and you get maximum value from your hand if he has KJ-AK-10-10. Waiting until the river to bet/raise makes it a lot easier for you to bemaking the mistake and for him to be escaping with a second best hand.

Also some players will make an aggresive play with QQ or KQ with a big checkraise on the turn, but you only get 350 more when they miss the river and bluff.

Re: a set against sonicboom
 

[ QUOTE ]
This is exactly why you need to bet the turn here. You are drawing live against AQ if you get it in on the turn and you get maximum value from your hand if he has KJ-AK-10-10. Waiting until the river to bet/raise makes it a lot easier for you to bemaking the mistake and for him to be escaping with a second best hand.

Also some players will make an aggresive play with QQ or KQ with a big checkraise on the turn, but you only get 350 more when they miss the river and bluff.

[/ QUOTE ]

good post.

i think a turn bet has to be made. your set is pretty disguised. i can see most players putting you on some kind of Q+pair combo and checkraising all in to make you pay to draw.