Re: A9o utg
 

The difference between this and the archetypal WAWB situation is he will call you with quite a bit when you are WA. He'll definitely call you with any pair, he'll definitely call with a straight draw, and he's likely to call you with K high. Plus he might call with any 2 other cards for whatever reason these guys have.

Indeed, against almost any other kind of player the turn check is standard, but this guy is very loose (you have decent value on a turn call), and passive (he's less likely to bluff the river.) As Victor said, if he will bluff a missed draw then checking the turn is better, but given the information we have I don't think he will all that much.

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There was no way a free card would hurt me

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True, this is not about hand protection; it is about value.

Re: A9o utg
 

[ QUOTE ]
The difference between this and the archetypal WAWB situation is he will call you with quite a bit when you are WA. He'll definitely call you with any pair, he'll definitely call with a straight draw, and he's likely to call you with K high. Plus he might call with any 2 other cards for whatever reason these guys have.

Indeed, against almost any other kind of player the turn check is standard, but this guy is very loose (you have decent value on a turn call), and passive (he's less likely to bluff the river.) As Victor said, if he will bluff a missed draw then checking the turn is better, but given the information we have I don't think he will all that much.

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There was no way a free card would hurt me

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True, this is not about hand protection; it is about value.

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Word. I like your explanation. Your thoughts are appreciated.

~efficacy

Re: A9o utg
 

I agree with Zele and think you miss value against a player this loose by checking

Re: A9o utg
 

I play the turn the same. I also like a river raise.

Re: A9o utg
 

I will bet this every time on the turn. Make the fish pay and don't give free cards - its basic poker. If he raises the turn, you reevaluate. Most passive fish will not bluff this river anyways so you are missing bets.

Re: A9o utg
 

there are quite a few gutterballs out there but, yea, i was wrong when i said "missed draw." i meant that he may bluff any 2 cards.

i like your line of thought on the fact that no pairs will hurt you here.

Re: A9o utg
 

I bet here and give the guy with 60 VPIP the opportunity to ply his primary trade, which is coming up with reasons to call. It should also be noted that a player with 60 VPIP and 1.0 AF is not passive postflop.

Cartman

Re: A9o utg
 

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I bet here and give the guy with 60 VPIP the opportunity to ply his primary trade, which is coming up with reasons to call. It should also be noted that a player with 60 VPIP and 1.0 AF is not passive postflop.

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Yep, he will call with a lot and yep, he could very well checkraise with a lot more then J on turn.

He will call with a worse hand much, much more often then he will pick up something little on river that now is worth calling with. And the chance he got J is not a lot bigger now then it was preflop when he coldcalled, his flopcall means nothing.

Got nothing to do with this thread, but u write good posts cartman.

Re: A9o utg
 

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Got nothing to do with this thread, but u write good posts cartman.

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I very much appreciate the compliment coming from you.

Re: A9o utg
 

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Problem is you can't do this with regularity because your opponents won't

a. ...
b. fold when you bet this turn with hands like QJ where you'd really like a fold.

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Is this a typo? I don't think anyone would ever fold QJ if I bet the turn... most likely they'd be C/R'ing me.

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Yup, I meant to give an example of a hand you'd raise preflop, have nothing on the turn, but bet again hoping for a fold. I'm not saying he has QJ- I'm saying you hope he folds hands that definitely have outs and may even be ahead of whatever garbage you hold.