Joe cassidy\'s A high call on the river
 

He called a CR on the river with A7 on a board of 985QJ, 3 diamonds with the flush card hitting the river... does this seem insane to anyone?

Does anyone know the action of this hand? I can only imagine that there was heavy action preflop and then checks on the flop and turn. I would very much like to know the action in this hand.

Re: Joe cassidy\'s A high call on the river
 

he had to call 200k into a 940k pot after he bet out and got raised at the river. i dont know the previous action, but this isnt incredibly out of line.

rj

Re: Joe cassidy\'s A high call on the river
 

How often do you bluff and call on the same street in NL with no cards to come?

Re: Joe cassidy\'s A high call on the river
 

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How often do you bluff and call on the same street in NL with no cards to come?

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Could you say that he was really bluffing? You could argue he was making a value bet.

Re: Joe cassidy\'s A high call on the river
 

All,

From Gutshot:

With 410,000 in the pot, Patrik Antonius leads out for 200,000

The board comes JhQh 5d6d 9s

Joe Cassidy thought for an age, then called.

Antonuis shows for Ah3d Ace high.

Joe shows As7d for another ace high. But his seven kicker gives him the pot.

--
Very different than the CP account, no idea which is accurate.

Re: Joe cassidy\'s A high call on the river
 

You're forgetting that this was also a great play on Antonius' part. He read Cassidy for not hitting the board. Unfortunately, Cassidy made the same read on Antonius, and ended up calling with a higher kicker.

Re: Joe cassidy\'s A high call on the river
 

I have a different post from cardplayer,

Date / Time: 2005-12-14 23:04:00
Title: Joe Cassidy Wins a Huge Pot Against Patrik Antonius to Take the Chip Lead
Log: With the board showing 9s-6d-5d-Qh-Jd on the river, Joe Cassidy bets about $100,000 into a roughly $500,000 pot, and Patrik Antonius raises to $300,000. Cassidy makes an incredible call with Ad-7c (ace high). Sure enough, Antonius shows Ah-3d, and Cassidy's kicker plays to win the entire pot.


Joe Cassidy is our new chip leader with approximately $1.45 million, while Antonius is down to $500,000.


[ QUOTE ]
All,

From Gutshot:

With 410,000 in the pot, Patrik Antonius leads out for 200,000

The board comes JhQh 5d6d 9s

Joe Cassidy thought for an age, then called.

Antonuis shows for Ah3d Ace high.

Joe shows As7d for another ace high. But his seven kicker gives him the pot.

--
Very different than the CP account, no idea which is accurate.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Joe cassidy\'s A high call on the river
 

So what you're saying is is thatyou call with A high in a tournament situation for 1/4 of your chips if you're getting 5-1 on the call more than 16 percent of the time...

"bloop bloop"

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he had to call 200k into a 940k pot after he bet out and got raised at the river. i dont know the previous action, but this isnt incredibly out of line.

rj

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Re: Joe cassidy\'s A high call on the river
 

[ QUOTE ]
So what you're saying is is thatyou call with A high in a tournament situation for 1/4 of your chips if you're getting 5-1 on the call more than 16 percent of the time...

"bloop bloop"

[ QUOTE ]
he had to call 200k into a 940k pot after he bet out and got raised at the river. i dont know the previous action, but this isnt incredibly out of line.

rj

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no, he's saying that he did this time.

perhaps he had a reason to????

Re: Joe cassidy\'s A high call on the river
 

Cassidy isn't insane. Only insanely good.

Re: Joe cassidy\'s A high call on the river
 

what made hand checks that scary a board on the river?

Re: Joe cassidy\'s A high call on the river
 

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what made hand checks that scary a board on the river?

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OP got the board wrong, it wasn't as scary as that. See El D's post.

Re: Joe cassidy\'s A high call on the river
 

i dont know the previous action, but this isnt incredibly out of line.

rj

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no, he's saying that he did this time.

perhaps he had a reason to????

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That top quote does not = he did this time. He's saying its not an incredible call given the action, which it is.

Re: Joe cassidy\'s A high call on the river
 

is EL Diablo's post correct? he very well could be, but i got my post from cardplayer. Or is worstplayer just following El diablo's post again?

Re: Joe cassidy\'s A high call on the river
 

I think a lot of people on this board are very mechanical. In live games reads are everything and each situation is unique. Joe Cassidy made a very good read and made the call based on his read. I doubt he would normally call a CR with A high but he thoguht it was the right move this time.

Re: Joe cassidy\'s A high call on the river
 

JW,

I just checked pokerwire and their description looks similar to Cardplayer's, not Gutshot's.

Re: Joe cassidy\'s A high call on the river
 

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what made hand checks that scary a board on the river?

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OP got the board wrong, it wasn't as scary as that. See El D's post.

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THen what the hell was this based on?? I'm sorry for getting aggravated by my own posting, but was that quote just an example of just following highly credited posters and discarding others? I have a major problem with this forum just being a group of yes men and not having any opinions of their own. I mean, look at the quote. He immediately discounts my statement and then follows El Diablos.

Mainevent, If you were there, or have a better source, please discount my attack and i apoligize in advance. if you have a defense, please state it or I will have to look at your future posts in a different light.

Re: Joe cassidy\'s A high call on the river
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think a lot of people on this board are very mechanical. In live games reads are everything and each situation is unique. Joe Cassidy made a very good read and made the call based on his read. I doubt he would normally call a CR with A high but he thoguht it was the right move this time.

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I would love to hear the thought process and logic behind this call. I'm not attacking him, i would merely like to know the assumptions and criteria of the player, board, before making this call since its clearly complicated. Peace

Most players on this site are also uncreative and unreceptive to other peoples points. Mechanical isnt the beggining of our problems.

Re: Joe cassidy\'s A high call on the river
 

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I would love to hear the thought process and logic behind this call.

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he probably thought his hand had a reasonable shot at being best

also, if you really want to learn something, leave the WPT forum asap. head over to the BBV forum instead [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Joe cassidy\'s A high call on the river
 

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what made hand checks that scary a board on the river?

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OP got the board wrong, it wasn't as scary as that. See El D's post.

[/ QUOTE ]

THen what the hell was this based on?? I'm sorry for getting aggravated by my own posting, but was that quote just an example of just following highly credited posters and discarding others? I have a major problem with this forum just being a group of yes men and not having any opinions of their own. I mean, look at the quote. He immediately discounts my statement and then follows El Diablos.

Mainevent, If you were there, or have a better source, please discount my attack and i apoligize in advance. if you have a defense, please state it or I will have to look at your future posts in a different light.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not so much agreeing with Diablo as I am disagreeing with you. You had an 8 on the board, which no update site had and no one else who posted the hand on 2+2 had. I assumed it was a typo on your part, since I can't think of any source you could have gotten it from.

BTW, I posted the hand with the same description in the GIGABET thread before Diablo or anyone else on 2+2 posted the hand at all, so I don't know how I'm "following" anyone.

Re: Joe cassidy\'s A high call on the river
 

Why did he bet if he was going to call anyway?makes no sense..

Re: Joe cassidy\'s A high call on the river
 

Your board has to be wrong because if it weren't then the pot would have been split, which it wasn't.

A7 and A3 both have AQJ98 on your board.

Re: Joe cassidy\'s A high call on the river
 

One person said it, but everyone else has ignored this fact- this isn't online! In live play, opponents sometimes reveal the strength of their hand through something known as a "tell". Clearly Cassidy thought his opponent had nothing, and he was right. You can't, like online, only consider what % of the time this action has him beat.

Re: Joe cassidy\'s A high call on the river
 

[ QUOTE ]
One person said it, but everyone else has ignored this fact- this isn't online! In live play, opponents sometimes reveal the strength of their hand through something known as a "tell". Clearly Cassidy thought his opponent had nothing, and he was right. You can't, like online, only consider what % of the time this action has him beat.

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tell me more about these so called "tells" of yours.

Re: Joe cassidy\'s A high call on the river
 

[ QUOTE ]
One person said it, but everyone else has ignored this fact- this isn't online! In live play, opponents sometimes reveal the strength of their hand through something known as a "tell". Clearly Cassidy thought his opponent had nothing, and he was right. You can't, like online, only consider what % of the time this action has him beat.

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I still dont get it. If he thought his opponent has nothing, why didnt he check and call any bluff bet?

Re: Joe cassidy\'s A high call on the river
 

He obviously didn't put his opponent on "nothing" if/when he bet. It's more likely that he put his opponent first on "something" and then changed his read after the raise.

Re: Joe cassidy\'s A high call on the river
 

Joe Cassidy described this hand on CardPlayer.com's streaming audio called "The circuit". It went something like this:

Patrick Antonius opened from cut-off position, and Cassidy called from the BB with A-7.

Flop came 5-6-9, two diamonds.

Cassidy checked, and Antonius bet about 80% of the pot.

Since Antonius had been playing very aggresively, Cassidy thought there was a good chance he had the best hand, and if he didn't he still had outs, so he called.

Turn came an offsuit Queen.

Cassidy checked, and Antonius checked behind.

At this point Cassidy didn't think Antonius had much of a hand.

River was a Jack, completing a possible diamond flush.

Cassidy bet out 140K to represent a hand, because he didn't want a small pair or a bigger ace-high to beat him in a free showdown.

Antonius raised to 340K, and Cassidy went into to tank.

Cassidy had the Ace of Diamonds, so he knew Antonius couldn't have the nuts. In the end he decided to call with the A-7 high because he didn't think Antonius would raise for value on the river since Cassidy called him on the flop and then led the river after the possible flush got there. He figured if Antonius had a strong hand there (flush, straight) he would just call and not risk getting re-raised by another big stack who could possibly have the nut flush. He figured the most likely reason Antonius raised was that he had a bluffing hand himself.

Sure enough, Antonius showed A-3, and Cassidy's 7 kicker barely beat the board to win the huge pot. A brilliant read on Cassidy's part.

Re: Joe cassidy\'s A high call on the river
 

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How often do you bluff and call on the same street in NL with no cards to come?

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Could you say that he was really bluffing? You could argue he was making a value bet.

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This isn't limit hold'em. When you bet on the river in no-limit with ace-high you are bluffing.

Cassidy bluffed, but recognized that Antonius was bluff-raising.

Re: Joe cassidy\'s A high call on the river
 

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I still dont get it. If he thought his opponent has nothing, why didnt he check and call any bluff bet?

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According the the audio interview on cardplayer, he led at the pot on the river because he didn't want Antonius to get a free showdown with a hand like 33 or 44. So when Antonius raises, Joe just went through every possible hand and decided that since he had the ace of diamonds (which is very important because he didn't think Antonius could raise with a small flush) that Antonius simply had to be bluffing. It's not crazy, just a good solid read.

So to answer your question, he can't just check/call with ace high because it was essentially Antonius's river raise that gave Joe the information that he was bluffing.

Re: Joe cassidy\'s A high call on the river
 

If Joe isn't holding the Ace of diamonds there, he folds in a heartbeat.