Semi-Bluff Turn Raises
 

Mirage 20/40, 6 handed.

Hand #1:

HJ open-raises. HJ seems like a pretty straightforward player so far, though I have seen him do things like the post title and what not. Seems okay except for his cold-calling proclivity. I'm not too sure of his standards here, but I'm guessing it is standard TAG fare. I think about 3-betting but call in the BB with ATo.

Flop is J32, rainbow and I check-call. Turn is an K, putting two diamonds on board and I check-raise. I get 3-bet and fold.

Hand #2:
Okay guy open-limps-- I think this means he has a pair, but I don't know what it is. I raise with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] on the button and he just calls. The flop is Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and I get check-raised. I call. Turn is the 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and I raise the turn, get 3-bet again and miss on the river and fold.

Are either of these good spots to go for it or are they too-obvious or what?

Re: Semi-Bluff Turn Raises
 

Hand 1 I usually checkraise that flop if I don't 3-bet preflop. I don't like the turn checkraise because the pot is so small, your draw is so weak, and there are 2 broadways on the board, making it more likely he has a hand worth calling. Plus, the 2nd diamond gives him a slightly better reason to call down.

Hand 2 looks good.

I don't think either semibluff looks "too obvious." In hand 1, Villain has to put you on a decent hand after you call that flop. In hand 2, Villain will be fearing other hands besides a flush draw.

Re: Semi-Bluff Turn Raises
 

hand 1 with two broadways out there i think its too risky, he might 3-bet or pay off, only thing you can make him laydown is 99-77 but the loss you get on other cases probably offset this win

Re: Semi-Bluff Turn Raises
 

I'd be interested to know which hands you were trying to get to fold. I think in both spots that once they show their strength (bet turn in first case, CR flop in second), they will rarely fold.

Re: Semi-Bluff Turn Raises
 

You can take many different lines in hand 1. 3-betting PF and leading. Call PF and CR flop. Call PF, check call flop, check fold turn. The last one is what I would prefer against a HJ raise.

Hand 2 is perfect.

Re: Semi-Bluff Turn Raises
 

I didnt like #1. Mainly b/c of the KJ on the board and the MP pf raise and well your draw isn't wonderful if you get a call.

#2 Looked fine.

Re: Semi-Bluff Turn Raises
 

the checkraise/fold to 3bet line with a gutshot is pretty bad imo.

hand 2 is much more reasonable.

Re: Semi-Bluff Turn Raises
 

Average live 20 players check-call/check-raise their big hands because other average 20 players call the raise and call the river and get shown 2pair+ and say "aw shucks". It's just not an effective bluffing line, unless you know your opponent is able to bet and fold on the same street.

In hand 2 you have position, you have a lot of outs, he could certainly fold 88,77,55 and it's reasonable to believe you'd wait until the turn to raise back with a big hand given the sparse board.