Brick & Mortar noob question
 

Posting here b/c I don't want to get completely flamed in the B&M forum.

I've only played online, but when playing at a limit table in a casino is there a recommended amount that you sit with? Am thinking that maybe there's a multiplier rule of thumb to use, like 25 or 30 times the big bet, at least for the low limits.

Thinking about playing at a 3-6 table, and was going to take $125 or $150. Is this an ok amount?

Re: Brick & Mortar noob question
 

At the casino I play at almost everyone buys into the 3-6 game with a rack of white (100 in singles). But sometimes I'll take double that or 150. I wouldn't worry about appearances that much, let your playing do the talking. But some people perceive when someone sits down with 200 or more that they are buying in with that amount in anticipation of losing and not wanting to get up to rebuy. Some people will interpret as you trying to intimidate them, but most or almost all won't notice how much you bought in for.

Re: Brick & Mortar noob question
 

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At the casino I play at almost everyone buys into the 3-6 game with a rack of white (100 in singles). But sometimes I'll take double that or 150. I wouldn't worry about appearances that much, let your playing do the talking.

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Thanks a lot Stoli! Indeed, I'll try and let my play speak for me (well that is).

Re: Brick & Mortar noob question
 

$150 should be fine. Good luck.

Well...
 

I posted it over there anyway, because I think it should be in the FAQ.

(Another example of why wikis and FAQs are a natural fit....)

Re: Brick & Mortar noob question
 

My rule of thumb is to buy in for 20 BB and have an additional 30 BB in my pocket. If you ever get below 12 BB on the table, just pull some more cash out.

Re: Brick & Mortar noob question
 

Rule of thumb: 30 BB's.

Re: Brick & Mortar noob question
 

I usually buy-in for 25xBB initially. I think you need to have a significant amount behind that, though. If you think you are playing well you should continue, whether you are down 3 buy-ins or up three. Remember it is all one long session!

Re: Brick & Mortar noob question
 

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If you think you are playing well you should continue, whether you are down 3 buy-ins or up three. Remember it is all one long session!

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Great point, and I actually have a follow-on question. How many hands (how long) should I be playing in one sitting to assume I'm getting a fair run of cards. They say that a deck should be shuffled 7x to guarantee randomness, so is there a generally accepted number of hands one should play in one sitting to try and smooth out really great or really poor cards? Assuming of course that you may leave based on your winning or losing, table conditions, opponents, etc. even if you think cards are going to turn in your favor at some point.

Obviously I probably wouldn't want to go and play for only an hour, but is 3 okay, or is 4 better, or 5?

Re: Brick & Mortar noob question
 

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If you think you are playing well you should continue, whether you are down 3 buy-ins or up three. Remember it is all one long session!

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That's fine and good, and of course it's theoretically unimpeachable. However, in practice a new player in the cardroom for the first time WON'T know whether she's playing better than the competition, unless she has a good bit of online or home game experience. (The OP mentions his online experience but not how much he has.) Sure, it's possible to watch the hands other people show down and gasp at their profligacy in playing 10 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] under the gun, but it takes a while to really get to the point where you KNOW you can beat a game even when you're down 50 big bets.

I would say, if the OP either
<ul type="square">[*]doesn't feel comfortable taking a huge loss due to variance at these stakes, or[*]doesn't KNOW that he can beat the game he's playing in,[/list]then he'd be well-advised to set a stop loss of 30 BB. If you hit it, no worries, just go home and practice at smaller stakes online before returning to the cardroom. Sure, -30 BB runs can be pure dumb luck -- but it takes experience to KNOW that your downswing is dumb luck.

Those of us who've weathered a few swings -- and I'm a newbie relative to many on this forum -- tend to forget how hard it is to distinguish downswings because of one's play from downswings because of dumb luck.

Re: Brick & Mortar noob question
 

Play until you get tired or bored. It's not uncommon to go a hour or more to get a good hand to play outside of the blinds. Some sessions you will get better cards more often.

The basic problem with B+M poker is speed. You'll be lucky to see 30 hands an hour at a low limit table. The long run is really long at a cardroom.

Re: Brick & Mortar noob question
 

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How many hands (how long) should I be playing in one sitting to assume I'm getting a fair run of cards.

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After about 100 hours, the normal swings due to the randomness of a fair deck will be about the same size as the skill advantage of a good player. A good player should expect to be down about 1 time in 6 after 100 hours.

I don't recommend playing for 100 hours at a time. Accept that poker isn't fair in the short run, even with a perfectly random deck.

Re: Brick & Mortar noob question
 

I'm pretty new to B&amp;M myself (&lt;1000 hours); I generally sit with 25-30 big bets at 2-4 or 3-6. I don't carry any reserve because right now I'm doing it for recreation. I also want to get a feel for the players, dealers, general atmosphere.

I concur with other posters; if you aren't able to discern between bad luck or bad play, don't plan on reloading. It's too tempting sometimes.

On on ocassion, I bought in for $100 on 2-4, had a bad run (down about half), decided to get up and treat myself to a nice dinner (bad bankroll management, good prime rib).

Enjoy!

c

Re: Brick & Mortar noob question
 

1. My normal B&amp;M game is 3/6, and I always buy in for a rack ($100), and plan for a 2nd rack if I need it (total; 33.3 BB). I might go for a 3rd rack, but that will be dependent upon my assessment of how I'm playing, strength of the table, etc.

Obviously, if I've already dropped 30+ big bets, I need to be quite sure that it's solely because of bad beats, suckouts, and NOT because I'm playing subpar. As it happens, I rarely get to that decision point...and when I do, I usually just stand up and go home.

My records show that, of 51 sessions (both 3-6 and 4-8) over last 4 months, I've gone for the 3rd rack 4 times (with predictably dreary results), while I threw in the towel at that point 7 times. Unfortunately, my record-keeping doesn't show me the times I buy in for 3rd (or 2nd) rack, and then make a comeback...I think I'll start tracking that a little better. That said, I'm pretty sure that I've lost more than I've gained by going for the 3rd rack.

(for those who are wondering....31 winning sessions, and 10 sessions of modest losses)

2. As someone else mentioned, you're not going to get a statistically significant number of hands even over multiple B&amp;M sessions, however long they are. At 35 hand/hour (OPTIMISTIC, best case scenario), you're still going to see roughly half the number of hands you would online (not multitabling). For us 4-tablers, an 8-hour B&amp;M session equates to something like an hour at the computer.

The flip side is that B&amp;M games are generally much softer, reading people is a bigger factor, it's more fun, and you usually get free food/drinks.

Just my $0.02.

Re: Brick & Mortar noob question
 

You can get away with 100 bucks easy.

Re: Brick & Mortar noob question
 

What about for 2-5 NL? How much would you want to sit down with there. And the blinds are $2 and $5 I'm assuming?

Re: Brick & Mortar noob question
 

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You can get away with 100 bucks easy.

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Spoken like someone without much first-hand experience of variance at limit poker....

If you're just looking to spend a pleasant afternoon in the cardroom and set a loss-limit in case the game is too tough for you, then sure, 17 big bets will let you play for a little while unless you have bad luck, then you may just play a few second-best hands. For riding out variance, even the variance one expects to find in a session, it's nowhere near enough.

Yesterday at Foxwoods I started out up two stacks (of $2 chips, so +20 BB) at $2/4. Then I hit a lousy run for several hours, and I suddenly I was stuck almost two stacks (a swing of -40 BB). Lo and behold, I hit a couple of big hands and had a couple of pocket pairs hold up surprisingly, and I finished up two stacks (another swing of +40 BB). This was in no way an extraordinary session; just the way things go in a typical 9-to-12-hour session of limit hold'em.

If I had only taken 67 bucks to the cardroom, I would have busted out instead of finished up $80.

Re: Brick & Mortar noob question
 

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You can get away with 100 bucks easy.

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Spoken like someone without much first-hand experience of variance at limit poker....

If you're just looking to spend a pleasant afternoon in the cardroom and set a loss-limit in case the game is too tough for you, then sure, 17 big bets will let you play for a little while unless you have bad luck, then you may just play a few second-best hands. For riding out variance, even the variance one expects to find in a session, it's nowhere near enough.

Yesterday at Foxwoods I started out up two stacks (of $2 chips, so +20 BB) at $2/4. Then I hit a lousy run for several hours, and I suddenly I was stuck almost two stacks (a swing of -40 BB). Lo and behold, I hit a couple of big hands and had a couple of pocket pairs hold up surprisingly, and I finished up two stacks (another swing of +40 BB). This was in no way an extraordinary session; just the way things go in a typical 9-to-12-hour session of limit hold'em.

If I had only taken 67 bucks to the cardroom, I would have busted out instead of finished up $80.

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I actually havent had much trouble buying in with 100 bucks at a 3/6 game.

Re: Brick & Mortar noob question
 

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If you ever get below 12 BB on the table, just pull some more cash out.

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Great advice. I wish I could say I never needed to buy-in for more than $100 in a 3/6 game, but I have started with $100 several times, ready to buy more. I find it more comfortable to sit down with $150 and not dig into my pocket if I start down a few bucks.

Re: Brick & Mortar noob question
 

Yeah I just buy in for $200 for $3/$6. I normally buy in for 50BB online to just play poker without changing my style because I'm worried about my money getting low. But at a B&amp;M $300 in $1 chips is huge, so I just go with $200. The point is I get enough chips so during a hand, I don't become weak/tight because I'm getting low on chips.

Re: Brick & Mortar noob question
 

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I actually havent had much trouble buying in with 100 bucks at a 3/6 game.

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I'm pretty confident saying that you're either running well or citing a tiny sample if you've never gone -17 BB in any B&amp;M session. I suppose opponents in your $3/6 games might be outrageously weak-tight and kind enough to never draw out against you.... but that strikes me as unlikely.

If it were just me, I'd say that maybe I'm not as good as I think I am -- but I've never read anything on this site to imply that 17 big bets is enough to play limit hold'em, or that -17 BB swings are in any sense uncommon.