Can I ever lay this down?
 

Is this ever a possible laydown? I was fairly confident I was beat based on reads...

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ Hero (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

<font color="#C00000">MP3 ($444)</font>
CO ($177.60)
Button ($268.10)
SB ($152.20)
<font color="#C00000">Hero ($185)</font>
<font color="#C00000">UTG ($74.79)</font>
UTG+1 ($235.60)
UTG+2 ($380.65)
MP1 ($182)
MP2 ($194)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $1.
UTG calls $2, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, MP3 calls $2, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB (poster) completes, Hero checks.

Flop: ($8) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $7.6</font>, UTG calls $7.60, MP3 calls $7.60, SB calls $7.60.

Turn: ($38.40) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets $20</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises to $100</font>, SB folds, Hero calls $175.40 (All-In), UTG calls $45.19 (All-In), MP3 calls $75.40.

River: ($454.39) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players, 2 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: $454.39

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
Hero has Qc 3c (flush, queen high).
UTG has 7d 6h (full house, sevens full of sixes).
MP3 has Ac 4c (flush, ace high).
Outcome: UTG wins $233.97. MP3 wins $220.42. </font>

Re: Can I ever lay this down?
 

Maybe - but I think you make it difficult on yourself by checking the turn. Why not lead out there? Were you going for a check-raise, or did you already consider that there might be a higher flush draw, with three callers of your initial bet? Almost half the deck makes you cringe - another club or the board pairing - so why did you not bet?

This converter always messes me up - but it appears that UTG is somewhat nearly committed, and MP3 raises him anyway. With this many players in I don't see a naked ace of clubs raising like this, and MP3 did not raise on the flop - he has to have some kind of flush probably, but could you put him on a higher one than your own?

Re: Can I ever lay this down?
 

I was convinced there would be action behind me, and that there were others on the Flush Draw. I wasn't worried about the shortstack donk, but I was worried about the villain. I don't think he'd make that play with me to act behind him without a very strong hand.

The problem is: He could also have a straight or lower flush and be confident that he has the shortstack beat... So folding would be way too weak considering I have a LOT of hands here beat.

Re: Can I ever lay this down?
 

What I don't understand is why you raise the $100 bet. You know you don't have the nut flush, and the board has paired, making any flush no longer the nuts anyway.
Yet, your hand would often win. Why not tread the middle road and just call it down.

Re: Can I ever lay this down?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I was fairly confident I was beat based on reads...

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
The problem is: He could also have a straight or lower flush and be confident that he has the shortstack beat... So folding would be way too weak considering I have a LOT of hands here beat.

[/ QUOTE ]
Doesn't sound like you're all that confident.

Go broke. Next hand.

Re: Can I ever lay this down?
 

Because the board wasn't paired on the turn. Call and leave myself with 80 more on the river? Sorry, that can't be correct as calling here is basically committing my stack.

Re: Can I ever lay this down?
 

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Wooly,

I'm sure I'm way more weak-tight than most around here, but I'll offer my analysis:

You got to see the flop for free with a piece of cheese. You flop a nice draw and I think leading here is ok, but I woulda had warning bells going off in my head when I get cold-called in three spots with this board.

You thought you hit gin on the turn and were willing to take this hand all the way? - or is it that you just couldn't lay it down? You had to have thought that at least one of the callers was drawing to a flush? If so, your feelings are confirmed(a big flush too) when there are *two* pot-committing moves in front of you.

Again, I know I'm too weak tight much of the time, but if I call/shove on this turn I'm expecting to go broke most of the time - especially with the action in front of you(unless these guys are complete maniacs).

IMO, you let yourself get trapped/busted in an unraised NL pot. Your opponents cards were practically face up and you still called off your stack. I fold this turn and play the next hand(most of the time - LOL).

-TripKings

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Re: Can I ever lay this down?
 

I knew there was a flush out there, I just didn't know if that flush had a card higher than a Queen.

Re: Can I ever lay this down?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I knew there was a flush out there, I just didn't know if that flush had a card higher than a Queen.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, you were "fairly confident" you were beat. Trust you read here. I think you were blinded by the fact that you held the 5th nuts and two suckers were leading into you. You thought you had a BB-special and were going to double through the MP3 with him limping/shoveing with what, J10c? The only thing that suprised you in this hand is who won.

-TripKings

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Re: Can I ever lay this down?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I knew there was a flush out there, I just didn't know if that flush had a card higher than a Queen.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, you were "fairly confident" you were beat. Trust you read here. I think you were blinded by the fact that you held the 5th nuts and two suckers were leading into you. You thought you had a BB-special and were going to double through the MP3 with him limping/shoveing with what, J10c? The only thing that suprised you in this hand is who won.

-TripKings

.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wasn't surprised to lose, In fact I expected to lose when I pushed.