88 in EP. (Stars $20 Deepstack) Oh, and i\'m a calling station.
 

Ok i was talking to my friend about this hand and he and i disagreed on every street, so i though maybe this would be an interesting hand.

Converted at PokerGeek
PokerStars NL Hold'em Tournament - 50/100 Blinds (10 handed)

Starting Stacks
Seat 1: Button (T16645)
Seat 2: Small blind (T9680)
Seat 3: BB (T6800)
Seat 4: UTG (T5550)
Seat 5: UTG+1 (T7045)
Seat 6: EP (Hero) (T4850)
Seat 7: MP1 (T4055)
Seat 8: MP2 (T4060)
Seat 9: LP (T2783)

Preflop: Hero is EP with 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero raises (300), <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 calls (300), LP calls (300), Button folds, Small blind folds, BB calls (200)

<font color="#666666"> This a bit loose to be raising this here? I thought it was fine, but my friend was saying a limp is better. I think i'd limp with a shorter stack, but 50 BB's seems big enouogh for me. </font>

Flop: (T1250) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero checks, MP2 bets (600), LP folds, BB folds, Hero calls (600)

<font color="red"> I kinda froze here and didn't c-bet because all the people in the hand scared me. But once he bet and it was folded around to me, i thought i'd see a turn and see what he does. </font>

Turn: (T2450) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP2 bets (1000), Hero calls (1000)

<font color="red">I figured at this point i was probably good, but if i am, he's not going to call me if i check-push, so i thought i might be able to get some more out of him on the river. and he's probably only got like 10-15% equity in the hand, so i should be good giving the 'free' card. But is this pot big enough that i should be fine just taking what's in there? </font>

River: (T4450) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP2 all-in (2160), Hero calls (2160)

<font color="red"> reason i just called on the turn was hoping he would do this on the river, so i call. But now i'm thinking that he's probably bluffing less than 50% of the time here so i probably should have just taken the pot on the turn</font>

Final Pot: T8770


meh, boring hand? Did i go nuts? Hands make me think when i ask someone i respeect if they'd make the call on the river and they say "No earthly idea. I'd never ever be there."

Re: 88 in EP. (Stars $20 Deepstack) Oh, and i\'m a calling station.
 

Preflop.
Raising and calling are both fine. I'd dislike the raise if players behind you had you covered, but they dont, so im down.

Flop.
I like. Sometimes I'll bet here, a normal cb but also I want LP to fold and maker the hand easier. There's nothing wrong with your line though.

Turn.
You catch a really good card for your hand and he makes another small bet, you are either crushed or ahead. Obviously this is the real decision point. If you call here you are pretty much committed to closing your eyes and calling any riverbet. I dont love the spot that you get yourself into here, but im ok with following through and calling down.

River.
After the turn call this is automatic imo. His bet is only half the pot so you are getting 3:1 so you only need to be ahead 1/4 of the time to call. but again, you've created those odds for yourself with the turn decision.

Re: 88 in EP. (Stars $20 Deepstack) Oh, and i\'m a calling station.
 

Preflop - I like to mix up my play with small/mid pairs so raising and calling both work for me.

Flop - Again I like to mix it up with one of:
a ck and call
a continuation bet
a ck raise

So again I'm fine with your play on the flop

Turn - I don't hate the ck call with the intention of calling any river but I probably am more apt to ck raise all in here and take it down (assuming it's mine). The all in ck raise should get rid of pocket 9's and pocket 10's which are two of the hands that my opponent could be holding in this spot. It's a nice pot which adds plenty of bullets to my gun, gimmee.

Re: 88 in EP. (Stars $20 Deepstack) Oh, and i\'m a calling station.
 

I'm very sleep deprived, but I'm having a really hard time understanding how your line does anything but donk off your whole stack the vast majority of the time. It's multiway, there are no real draws on the flop, you raised from ep, and you put unknown villain with deep stack on a bluff and call off your whole stack? Villain's got a weak jack or a turned boat a huge percentage of the time.

Re: 88 in EP. (Stars $20 Deepstack) Oh, and i\'m a calling station.
 

I think your pre-flop raise in early position is fine and I raise middle PP a lot more in early position than limping. I think I like a c-bet much more in this situation vs. a check call.

Only problem with my opinion here is I think I c-bet far more than I should. But in this situation I think a c-bet will define your hand a lot more, and allow you to get away from it easier.

I think something that needs to be considerd is that if you were worried about betting into that many people than MP 2 should have some concerns as well. He still bet into 2 other players which tells me his hand could have some merit.

So after thinking about it I would prob bet, check/fold. And tell myself I was beat by 10J or QJ suited.

Re: 88 in EP. (Stars $20 Deepstack) Oh, and i\'m a calling station.
 

I like a small raise with a medium pair, particularly with a deep stack. It inhibits someone else with a medium pair making a raise if you just limp.

After raising pre-flop I'd always make a continuation bet unless I flopped a monster or so badly that I'm not putting any more chips in so I don't like the check-call so much.

Let's take his bet at face value: He's announcing he thinks he has the best hand. No real draw he could be betting so he's got a Jack or a pair. As he called a raise an overpair is unlikely so maybe 77-TT range.

I don't like checking the turn as this is your chance to get him off a better hand if he has 99 or TT. Alternatively you could check-raise the Jack. The turn bet from him doesn't seem too confident. Maybe he's got a Jack and is worried about the kicker or still feels like his pair is good.

River push indicates he thinks he has the best hand or nothing. A jack just takes a showdown here as does a pair. As there's no draw he could've been betting I put him on JT or TT now and fold. I certainly wouldn't be in this spot, or anything near it, with 88.

Re: 88 in EP. (Stars $20 Deepstack) Oh, and i\'m a calling station.
 

I wanna lay this down post flop if a continuation bet fails to drive them away..- don't ask me why....

but I'm not usually in the Big Stack tourneys - hate taking 10 hrs to finish a tourney.

I have no problem with the raise EP - and a nice fired out bet - but after that I would probably shut down...

don't suppose you wanna tell us what he had? -:)

RB

Re: 88 in EP. (Stars $20 Deepstack) Oh, and i\'m a calling station.
 

Playing deepstack I would limp 88 100% of the time with low blinds, I am looking to flopp a monster and have no trouble muckig a no hit avoiding tunelling my self into the fog of war. The limp Pf also makes it easier to fold Pf. This is very Deepstack related as in other structures or settings I could be very happy to see 88. It helps on the image as well for later stages if any is taking notice that is.

PS broke my spell of bad beats and finally made a ft again yesterday, tried my best to put bad beats on others but failed miserably HAHAHAHAHA

Peace exit, could you Pm your spread sheet again please?

Stokken

Re: 88 in EP. (Stars $20 Deepstack) Oh, and i\'m a calling station.
 

Let me quantify myself before I say much, I'm around a 2.5 on MLGs Evolution scale. With that said, I like the raise and this is easy to let go to any reraise, I dont like checking the flop, a 1/2 to 2/3 C-bet makes sense to me. Why? My reasoning is that there were 4 players in the pot, not worried, one over card, slightly concerned, and you were the PF agressor, good. My only concern is that you are a calling station, was this consitent with your play up to this point? I made this exact same play with 88 UTG+1 to a board of AJ7. I made a c-bet of 2/3 the pot, folds back to the button. He says "Can I really lay this down? I think you have AK." He folds and I showed him my 88. He had AT. Thats my play and my take on it.

Re: 88 in EP. (Stars $20 Deepstack) Oh, and i\'m a calling station.
 

pf: i usually minraise this considering you are still pretty deep, and are playing this for set instead of showdown value.

flop: this is a beautiful dry flop for your hand. Go ahead and keep on playing this like AA.


turn: so far you have played your hand exactly like you have 88. I'm guessing that he really isn't driving the bus here with ace high (although there is a chance), 66, or a draw. More than likely he has a jack or maybe TT. I fold this one.

river: how often do you think that hes bluffing? he may have had something wierd like 45c or something, but more than likely he is strong (or at least stronger than you) as such you are getting a good price, and are pretty much committed.