Re: Which street is worst?
 

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for you guys who say river is good: you agree that the river is good only because I bet the turn, right? Im assuming you would hate a river bet after a turn check?

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Right. The river is good cuz you bet the turn, but the turn bet may not be so hot.

Re: Which street is worst?
 

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for you guys who say river is good: you agree that the river is good only because I bet the turn, right? Im assuming you would hate a river bet after a turn check?

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Right. The river is good cuz you bet the turn, but the turn bet may not be so hot.

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what exactly is the problem with the turn bet? when they check to me, Im pretty certain neitehr have a pair. so basically Im betting to charge the lone clubs and set up my river bluff at the same time. do you guys really think they are gonna pay off both streets with ace high no club?

Re: Which street is worst?
 

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so basically Im betting to charge the lone clubs

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You're charging the lone clubs with queen high?

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set up my river bluff

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When you bet the turn the pot is 4.75 BB. If we assume between 1 and 2 opponents will call the turn, you will risk 2BB (turn + river) to win either 5.75 BB or 6.75 BB (average of 6.25BB). This is about 3:1.

Sometimes these guys will hit their draws or, since they act first, can bluff before you can. Also it is possible that one does, in fact, hold a small pair (couldn't MP have 44 or 55?). And if one holds the ace of clubs you will often be called on the river. On top of that, you will sometimes be checkraised on the turn which won't allow you to complete your 2 barrel bluff and sometimes this causes you to forfeit some equity in the pot (if you have outs). The whole 2bet parlay just doesn't work enough. When you are on the river , however, the pot is pretty large since you bet the turn and your opponents river action (and the river card) give you information to make a +EV river bet.

Re: Which street is worst?
 

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When you bet the turn the pot is 4.75 BB. If we assume between 1 and 2 opponents will call the turn, you will risk 2BB (turn + river) to win either 5.75 BB or 6.75 BB (average of 6.25BB). This is about 3:1.

Sometimes these guys will hit their draws or, since they act first, can bluff before you can. Also it is possible that one does, in fact, hold a small pair (couldn't MP have 44 or 55?). And if one holds the ace of clubs you will often be called on the river. On top of that, you will sometimes be checkraised on the turn which won't allow you to complete your 2 barrel bluff and sometimes this causes you to forfeit some equity in the pot (if you have outs). The whole 2bet parlay just doesn't work enough. When you are on the river , however, the pot is pretty large since you bet the turn and your opponents river action (and the river card) give you information to make a +EV river bet.

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im never going to reply to any thread again unless it already has several replys, then I can just come in and quote the awesome responses (see above) and con people into thinking im smart!

Re: Which street is worst?
 

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so basically Im betting to charge the lone clubs

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You're charging the lone clubs with queen high?


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why not? even if they have Ace or King high, arent I still getting value if they will fold the river when they miss?

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set up my river bluff

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When you bet the turn the pot is 4.75 BB. If we assume between 1 and 2 opponents will call the turn, you will risk 2BB (turn + river) to win either 5.75 BB or 6.75 BB (average of 6.25BB). This is about 3:1.

Sometimes these guys will hit their draws or, since they act first, can bluff before you can. Also it is possible that one does, in fact, hold a small pair (couldn't MP have 44 or 55?). And if one holds the ace of clubs you will often be called on the river. On top of that, you will sometimes be checkraised on the turn which won't allow you to complete your 2 barrel bluff and sometimes this causes you to forfeit some equity in the pot (if you have outs). The whole 2bet parlay just doesn't work enough. When you are on the river , however, the pot is pretty large since you bet the turn and your opponents river action (and the river card) give you information to make a +EV river bet.

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I think chances of them holding a small pair and chances of them checkraising are really small. I agree the parlay probably doenst work quite often enough, but I dont think its as bad as some have suggested.

Re: Which street is worst?
 

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for you guys who say river is good: you agree that the river is good only because I bet the turn, right? Im assuming you would hate a river bet after a turn check?

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i like the river bc the pot is big and your only chance of winning is to bet.

Re: Which street is worst?
 

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why not? even if they have Ace or King high, arent I still getting value if they will fold the river when they miss?

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The way I look at it, you're giving up value on the turn in order to make a +EV bluff on the river. The river is where you can realize any "value." On the turn, if you are called, your opponents are the ones getting the value usually.

Re: Which street is worst?
 

easily the turn, which is prob the only street u misplayed...
preflop is 100% correct.
flop, meh.
turn, whyyyyy??
river, i wouldve most likely checked and i think i should be bluffing here more often... too often i check down trying to save a bet and keep my image intact and lose to Khigh... i like the bet.

Re: Which street is worst?
 

i just read this post again. i would definitely bet the flop. you will likely get enough folds for the pot size.

Re: Which street is worst?
 

I also would bet the flop since it is paired. If it were not I would usually check. I think this is a good spot to use the fold equity you pick up from 3betting to either take it on the flop or the turn or see a free river.