Your Saw Flop%
 

This is something that I have been racking my brain with for a while now. I try to stay around 20% to 25%, sometimes dipping as low as 15% and as high as 35%. I feel much more comfortable around 20%. Would this be consisdered too tight or too loose or just the right balance? I have read a couple of post where people were in the 10% area. Are these guys way too tight? Thanks.

Re: Your Saw Flop%
 

depends :P
im 5-15% usually

Re: Your Saw Flop%
 

I'm a consistent winner (4bb/100) with vpip at 31%.

But then again, I play 6-max Omaha HiLo...

Yeah, that's me being non-helpful [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Your Saw Flop%
 

Wow. 5 - 15%? I must be playing way too loose than. I know this is a total newbie question anyways, but I am really trying to tighten up my game and the consistency. I figure this is the only way I can take the next step.

Re: Your Saw Flop%
 

[ QUOTE ]
depends :P
im 5-15% usually

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Your Saw Flop%
 

You play this tight too Exit? This is already starting to confirm my fear of me being too loose a player.

Re: Your Saw Flop%
 

I used to be much higher than I am now, but tend to run at around 17%, and find my game has gotten much better. Basically I started mucking many more hands in EP. I don't know if I want to go as low as 5% (and have to think someone is jerking your chain here?). It also might be worth looking at your PFR numbers if you have PokerTracker. Limping a lot of pots (after the first few levels) or cold-calling raises is often a leak.

Also remember that there is a difference between VP$IP and saw flop. If you are doing a lot of sealing on the bubble, your VP$IP will be quite high, while you won't see many flops.

Bear in mind that this will change over the course of a tournament. As the tables tighten up, you can open more pots, especially if you have a big stack.

Re: Your Saw Flop%
 

I'm trying my best to tighten back up again. I looked back at some of my rebuy victories, and was usually around 7-10%.

Nick

Re: Your Saw Flop%
 

Yeah. When I made a FT in a rebuy the other night I started out at about 39% during the hectic rebuy hour. At the end I was at 20% for the tourney. I am definetly going to take a harder look at my play and kick myself a few more times. All this time I thought 20% was tight, boy was I wrong.

Re: Your Saw Flop%
 

great post. I was wondering the same thing. Looks like I am too loose as well. My VPIP is around 17-21%. rebuy period excepted...

Re: Your Saw Flop%
 

Hmmm, I truly believe the percentage should change over the course of a MTT.

At the early levels when the stacks are deep or close to deep I force myself to see flop with a wide range of hands, even calling raises with a lot of trash, and thereby having a flop-% of 25 - 30 over the first half hour. The point is to give myself a chance to hit a flop hard and double my stack before it suddenly becomes shortish (M below 20), which at PokerStars happens after 30 minutes at level 3, unless I increase my chip count substantially.

After the initial phase I agree completely with a flop-% of around 10 - again depending on the texture of your table (aggressive table -> lower %, passive table -> higher %).

Best,

McMelchior (Johan)

Re: Your Saw Flop%
 

I think the larger point is that early on in your career you should be dumping hands that look pretty but are actually mediocre at best. (All of this depends on blinds, opponents, stacks, etc., but folding AJ and KQ in EP, suited connectors in EP or even MP, will keep you out of trouble until you have a better handle on post-flop play, and bring down your flop percentages.) While there are some situations early in tournaments when you can hang around with marginal hands, they are called marginal for a reason.

The biggest change in my game over the last six months or so (and it has gotten better) is this: I fold more.

Re: Your Saw Flop%
 

Isn't this stat a little schewd? It is accounting only for Flops Seen. This doesn't include the hands you play and win without a flop or raise/limp and fold to aggression.

This may be more of an indicator of how tight of a caller you are, correct?

I gotta believe more hands are being played one way or another and not included in this particular stat.

Hotrod

Re: Your Saw Flop%
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hmmm, I truly believe the percentage should change over the course of a MTT.

At the early levels when the stacks are deep or close to deep I force myself to see flop with a wide range of hands, even calling raises with a lot of trash, and thereby having a flop-% of 25 - 30 over the first half hour. The point is to give myself a chance to hit a flop hard and double my stack before it suddenly becomes shortish (M below 20), which at PokerStars happens after 30 minutes at level 3, unless I increase my chip count substantially.

After the initial phase I agree completely with a flop-% of around 10 - again depending on the texture of your table (aggressive table -> lower %, passive table -> higher %).

Best,

McMelchior (Johan)

[/ QUOTE ]
Agree completely, this was what i was going to say. In the first few levels I have somewhere between 20-30 and tightening significantly later.

Re: Your Saw Flop%
 

[ QUOTE ]
Isn't this stat a little schewd? It is accounting only for Flops Seen. This doesn't include the hands you play and win without a flop or raise/limp and fold to aggression.

This may be more of an indicator of how tight of a caller you are, correct?

I gotta believe more hands are being played one way or another and not included in this particular stat.

Hotrod

[/ QUOTE ]

Is there a way that this can be factored in or does PT or PO track this sort of stuff? I know that something I have recently started doing was writing down my starting stack, #entrants, where I rank, Flop%, #hands dealt and played, Pots won with showdown, and without showdown. I update at each break. I cant use Poker Office while playing on stars, freezes up everytime.

Re: Your Saw Flop%
 

As a longtime lurker, this is an intersting thread. Lots of advice on the site seems to fall into the "don't be scared to push small edges to double up or go broke," which implied to me sometimes to be a little looser and pick good spots to apply pressure. But 5-15% seems very rock like for starting hand selection. Perhaps I should tighten up especially since the people advocating this range all are respected players.

What do you suppose a player like Gigabet's saw flop % is?

Re: Your Saw Flop%
 

it doesn't imply that you should be looser. If you raise AJ utg or call a raise with KJ, you're not pushing a small edge, you're making a -EV play

Re: Your Saw Flop%
 

Uh... my VPIP is around 33% so I suspect I'm a bit of a loose maniac. I checked the my stats from the last 11r I won and I was 34% VPIP and 19% PFR. The numbers for each were skewed somewhat higher for the beginning and end of the tournaments. (Obviously the beginning for the rebuy and the end for the shorthanded play / constant stealing.)
Even taking that into consideration, I don't think these numbers are out of line for me.
I know I have leaks. I've been working on them-- playing much fewer hands in EP was a good start. I also have a tendency to become too passive when stacks are deep. This one REALLY bothers me & I'm making time to play more deep stack events to learn how to play these spots better without losing lots of chips.

Re: Your Saw Flop%
 

I seem to end up with 17% VPIP no matter what happens or what tourney I'm in. I guess the consistency is good, but my results seem to be lacking lately. I guess I'll keep trucking and swee what happens.

Re: Your Saw Flop%
 

Out of curiosity, how much higher would people put this percentage broken down for each hour, or in relation to their ring game percentage?