Re: pretty simple question
 

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How many hands can you name that call this flop that hero is ahead of?

Hero has an ace, so that reduces the probability that villain has an overcard draw. Do you think villain calls this flop with QJ?

I think you're getting checkraised here pretty often, and when you're not you are getting called by a better hand. You have way the worst of it on a bet here. Sure you have between 12 and 18 outs, but that still makes you a dog.

I don't really care about giving a non-pair hand infinite odds on 4 outs. 4 outs isn't worth that much in a 3bb pot. We're usually behind and the pot is small. We don't have anything to protect, and buying a free showdown is almost worthless.

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omg on a blind steal? you want to check behind and fold to a bet? basically letting villain bluff you out with any 2 cards?? i think this is awful. he will call his BB and call a flop bet automatically with sooooo many hands just waiting to spike a pair or complete his 65 runner runner straight. i think this is an easy bet/call.

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i'm going to have to agree. i think any lag at 10/20 will bet this river no matter what it is if i check behind on the turn.

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If that's the case, then why not check the turn and call the river unimproved (or raise if you do improve)?

Re: pretty simple question
 

I think it simply comes down to how often you are ahead.

If you are ahead, then betting is clearly right because you can protect your hand and give yourself the option of a free showdown or going an extra bet on the river if your draw comes in. I think the problem with checking to induce a bluff on the river is that if your draw comes in villain may not bet into you because the board is going to look pretty scary at that point (and he may not even call your bet).

If you are behind, I think there's very little value in betting. The board is *so* dry that if villain caught a piece of it he's probably going to show it down. Getting CR'd isn't the end of the world, but we'd still rather not be.

So are we ahead? I dunno, I guess it's really read-dependant. I think that villain would have to be an awfully big donk to call that flop with a draw, though. Maybe something like A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ?

Re: pretty simple question
 

Maybe this is a completely crazy point of view, but I would never bet here. What, if villain folds? Then I will not have the possibility to river a royal flush. And I like to have one. This is worth the loss of equity in my eyes, if I don't bet the turn. But as I said, I'm crazy! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: pretty simple question
 

Villain is calling the flop with 65? Is that supposed to be humorous? There is a *big* difference between being in this betting sequence on a nine high flop and being in it on a king high flop.

K high makes it an either/or flop. Either villain has something and will call a flop bet and see the river or villain has nothing and will fold. Assuming villain is on a backdoor 2 pair draw is not good hand reading.

Re: pretty simple question
 

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How many hands can you name that call this flop that hero is ahead of?

Hero has an ace, so that reduces the probability that villain has an overcard draw. Do you think villain calls this flop with QJ?

I think you're getting checkraised here pretty often, and when you're not you are getting called by a better hand. You have way the worst of it on a bet here. Sure you have between 12 and 18 outs, but that still makes you a dog.

I don't really care about giving a non-pair hand infinite odds on 4 outs. 4 outs isn't worth that much in a 3bb pot. We're usually behind and the pot is small. We don't have anything to protect, and buying a free showdown is almost worthless.

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omg on a blind steal? you want to check behind and fold to a bet? basically letting villain bluff you out with any 2 cards?? i think this is awful. he will call his BB and call a flop bet automatically with sooooo many hands just waiting to spike a pair or complete his 65 runner runner straight. i think this is an easy bet/call.

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i'm going to have to agree. i think any lag at 10/20 will bet this river no matter what it is if i check behind on the turn.

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If that's the case, then why not check the turn and call the river unimproved (or raise if you do improve)?

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if i did check behind here i would call UI.

i like both lines, just wondering what the majority liked.

Re: pretty simple question
 

Unless you have some definite read on the guy that he'll frequently fold the turn, I'd check behind here too. There's a lot on this board that his action so far indicates that he could have hit. What are you worried about giving a free card to? Aren't you still drawing? I just see check-raises here way too often, and don't think a minimally-reasonable player would fold here.

If you think you have the best hand, call the river UI.

Re: pretty simple question
 

The chance that he donates a full BB on the river with a bluff, stands to make you way more than you give away by checking if villian is behind in this small pot. Plus you have to call c/r.

Re: pretty simple question
 

Have you stolen his blinds previously? Have you seen him c/r bluff 4th street? How does he play when he flops bottom pair? Does he 3 bet a small pocket pair preflop? "Typical lag stats" doesn't cut it for an open and shut answer, but if you want one, it definitely isn't "bet because you have a ton of outs even if you do get checkraised".

1.The pot is small so knocking out a 4 out draw isn't that valuable

2. Basically everytime you get called on the flop and then get bet into on the river, you can know that you are behind, so folding the river is fine. Stopping a bluff has no utility because the K hi flop already did that, and, did I mention the pot is small?

3. I think its very likely that you are going to be catching a checkraise upside the head in this betting sequence.

and, you won't be happy about that. Did I mention the pot is small?

Re: pretty simple question
 

it has been mentioned several times that the pot is small so you are not getting paid to draw. isn't this always the case in a blind steal that the pot is small. I know it is necessary to be aggressive in steal situations but it presents the question of how often you want to steal because you will never be winning a big pot

Re: pretty simple question
 

Spontaniously I'd say check. Seems like he is calling down a seven or a deuce or is waiting to checkraise with a king. There are no draws whatsoever so it's better to check. You can also gain one extra bet if you spike a diamond on the river if he holds a seven and bets for value on the river (which would not have happened if you had bet the turn).