Cardinals-Astros Matchups
 

I have seen alot of conjecture regarding the NLCS and here is my breakdown of the Cardinals-Astros matchups. I am obviously an Astros fan but I have tried to be as objective as possible.



Starting pitching:
Carpenter is the only "ace" quality pitcher on the Cards' staff, and he is unproven in the playoffs. Morris is close to this level and he seems to be improving as of late. The Astro's set of aces has the upper hand on the Card's pair.

(Edge: Astros)

Bullpen:
Houston's bullpen is much improved this year. Qualls and Wheeler have emerged this season to provide dependable setup work to get to Lidge. Outside of Isringhausen the Card's bullpen is quite inconsistent.

(Edge: Astros)

1st Base:
Pujols is scary good and is the best first baseman in baseball.
For the Astros, Lamb has pop in his bat and is coming on strong lately.

(Edge: Cardinals)

2nd Base:
At the age of 38, Biggio has had a hell of a year, hitting 26 homers and driving in 69 runs near the top of the order. His defense has slipped a bit though this year and he is prone to errors. Grudzielanek is a very average second baseman both offensively and defensively.

(Edge: Astros)

Shortstop:
Eckstein is a much better hitter than Adam Everett. However, Eckstein is a joke defensively, whereas Everett is solid with the glove. The Astros rely heavily on the speed game and this could present problems for the Cards when the ball is hit to short.

(Edge: Draw)

Third Base:
No contest here. Ensberg is a power hitting all star having the best year of his career. Nunez has not done much at all in place of Rolen.

(Edge: Astros)

Left Field:
Sanders having a nice year but Berkman is the man for Houston.

(Edge: Astros)

Center Field:
Nice rookie season for the speedy Taveras. Still, Edmonds is much better. He kills the Astros all the time.

(Edge:Cardinals)

Right Field:
Walker has declined alot from what he used to be and now is only slightly better than Jason Lane is.

(Edge:Cardinals)

Bench:
I am not impressed with the Cardinal's bench. Mabry, Taguchi, and Seabol are all average or below average. The Astros' Orlando Palmiero (a former Cardinal) is a great contact and situational hitter. Bagwell has been money in pinch-hit situations since returning.

(Edge: Draw)

Manager:
LaRussa has been making some weird decisions lately and I know some Card's fans that don't like him. Garner's aggressiveness has been exactly what the Astros needed.

(Edge: Astros)



My prediction: Astros in 6 or 7 games.

I don't know if the Cardinals players are underestimating the Astros in this series. I definitely know the Cardinals fans are.

Re: Cardinals-Astros Matchups
 

This doesn't need it's own thread. There already is a series thread.

Re: Cardinals-Astros Matchups
 

Yes there is, and it degenerated into a stupid argument on variance with little baseball content.

Re: Cardinals-Astros Matchups
 

Hey, if someone is going to bring up variance and how the Astros are gonna lose, then I'm gonna argue it! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Cardinals-Astros Matchups
 

Not only is this a worthless exercise, it's factually wrong (Eckstein's a joke defensively?)

Re: Cardinals-Astros Matchups
 

STL's bullpen is a better than Houston's. They're 4 deep (Ishringhausen, Reyes, Eldred, Tavarez) + whoever they decide not to make their 4th starter while Houston's is just 3 deep. Solid edge for STL there. You're going to need more than 3 guys in the bullpen if Clemens, Oswalt and Pettitte can't go 7+ innings consistently, but they probably can. Still, I'd rather have STL's depth.

SS, I think Eckstein contributes much more. You don't give up .1 of OPS and expect them to equal. Eck's glove just isn't that bad.

And you missed catcher.

Re: Cardinals-Astros Matchups
 

[ QUOTE ]
STL's bullpen is a better than Houston's. They're 4 deep (Ishringhausen, Reyes, Eldred, Tavarez) + whoever they decide not to make their 4th starter while Houston's is just 3 deep. Solid edge for STL there. You're going to need more than 3 guys in the bullpen if Clemens, Oswalt and Pettitte can't go 7+ innings consistently, but they probably can. Still, I'd rather have STL's depth.

SS, I think Eckstein contributes much more. You don't give up .1 of OPS and expect them to equal. Eck's glove just isn't that bad.

And you missed catcher.

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Wheeler, Qualls, Lidge, Rodriguez??? You guys clearly don't have a huge advantage. Wandy was a true rookie this year and won us 10 ballgames.

What would lead you to believe Pettitte clemens and oswalt cant go 7 innings?

Eckstein is good with the glove but being 5'7", he doesn't have the range of the 6'0" Everett, and his arm is horrible. His throws are huge arcs.

Even if he gets to the ball, some of our speedy guys may beat out his lobs from shallow shortstop.

Re: Cardinals-Astros Matchups
 

So Everett's better defensively. Eck's a lot better with the bat, too much to really make it close between the two. That's what I was saying.

I'm not saying the Big Three can't go 7+ innings consistently, they can. I'm saying, if they can't, I'd much rather have STL's bullpen than Hou's bullpen in terms of depth. STL has more depth to bail out their pitchers.

Rodriguez has a 5+ ERA... Come on. Sure, he might be good in a pinch, but I'd rather depend on STL's bullpen in a series where Hou's starting pitching can't take over the series.

Re: Cardinals-Astros Matchups
 

Wandy's ERA is high but he's either really on or really off. He wins the close games.

I will submit that Eckstein will be worth about 110% his usual value when he plays in MMP, because of the short porch. I can easily see Eck hitting gopher balls up in there.

I don't think there is a huge edge in any category in this series. Very similar ballclubs. Hou has more veteran leaders though. And TLR has a lot more experience than Garner, but Garner has a very unorthodox managerial style that is very much hit-or-miss. I don't think managers like having to manage against a guy like Garner just because of this. And nobody wants to manage agaisnt Tony just because of his track record.

Re: Cardinals-Astros Matchups
 

HOU has a pretty nice edge in starting pitching, but STL's lineup is deeper, and it has Pujols, who's insanely good.

Re: Cardinals-Astros Matchups
 

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And nobody wants to manage agaisnt Tony just because of his track record.

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Easy there killer.

Re: Cardinals-Astros Matchups
 

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Hou has more veteran leaders though.

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What happened to Reggie Sanders, Larry Walker, Jim Edmonds and Albert Pujols? I don't think veteran leaders is a St Louis weakness.

Thank you,

Jim Kuhn
Catfish4u
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Re: Cardinals-Astros Matchups
 

Luckily they got some practice with an MVP candidate in Andruw Jones... the cardinals' biggest threat was Klesko and his 19 bombs.

Re: Cardinals-Astros Matchups
 

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Hou has more veteran leaders though.

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What happened to Reggie Sanders, Larry Walker, Jim Edmonds and Albert Pujols? I don't think veteran leaders is a St Louis weakness.

Thank you,

Jim Kuhn
Catfish4u
[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

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Clemens, Pettitte, Bagwell, Biggio, Ausmus, Vizcaino, Palmeiro (probably doesn't count much). All of these guys are over 35 I believe, and have years of experience under their belts. Edmonds and Pujols? lol. I'll give you Sanders, Walker, and Izzy.

Re: Cardinals-Astros Matchups
 

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Hou has more veteran leaders though.

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What happened to Reggie Sanders, Larry Walker, Jim Edmonds and Albert Pujols? I don't think veteran leaders is a St Louis weakness.

Thank you,

Jim Kuhn
Catfish4u
[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

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Clemens, Pettitte, Bagwell, Biggio, Ausmus, Vizcaino, Palmeiro (probably doesn't count much). All of these guys are over 35 I believe, and have years of experience under their belts. Edmonds and Pujols? lol. I'll give you Sanders, Walker, and Izzy.

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That's true. Edmonds hasn't been around that long, nor been very successful.

Re: Cardinals-Astros Matchups
 

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HOU has a pretty nice edge in starting pitching

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I submit it's a marginal edge at best.

Re: Cardinals-Astros Matchups
 

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HOU has a pretty nice edge in starting pitching

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I submit it's a marginal edge at best.

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Even if it was more than marginal, it takes much more than great pitching. I want houston to win (my hometown), but this idea that great pitching wins is overrated. And even if HOU has great pitching, they aren't playing a team with crap pitching. What HOU lacks in hitting, they don't make up for with pitching. But, what STL lacks in pitching (compared to HOU) they make up for in hitting.

craig

Re: Cardinals-Astros Matchups
 

Vizcaino has much more experience than Pujols. That's why he's making so much more money than Albert and is one of the leading contenders for MVP.

Re: Cardinals-Astros Matchups
 

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STL's bullpen is a better than Houston's.

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I just want to clear this up, once and for all. STL's bullpen is not better than Houston's. Let's take the five relievers used by the Astros in the NLDS (and the five likely to be used in the NLCS)...those five are:

Brad Lidge
Dan Wheeler
Chad Qualls
Mike Gallo
Russ Springer

Their collective regular season ERA is 2.65.

Now let's look at the five NLDS relievers in the St. Louis bullpen. Those are: Jason Isringhausen, Randy Flores, Julian Tavarez, Brad Thomson, and Cal Eldred (you've forgotten, Reyes is gone...out for playoffs, not even on the postseason roster...unless he's gotten better, I haven't heard about it, and STL adds him into the NLCS roster).

Their collective regular season ERA is 3.14.

An ERA gap of .59 is not made up for by your assertion that STL's fifth starter makes such a better reliever than Wandy Rodriguez does. Even if I go ahead and grant that he does, considering the lack of likelihood that a guy like Wandy even sees any meaningful innings with the Astros starters' ability to go deep AND the pen around him.....PLUS considering that in the late games of the series, Backe and Pettitte will be available for relief (and even Oswalt in Game 7)...I think any perceived difference in the fifth-starter-as-reliever role is pretty well diminished, and to determine the better bullpen, you just buckle down and look at ERA.

I'll take the 2.65 over the 3.14 any day of the week...especially seeing how brilliantly the 2.65 performed in the ATL series.

Anyway, just wanted to clear up any rumors of the Cardinals having a better bullpen than the Astros.

This should frame the debate. There are four major areas one must look at in determining who has a better chance in a series. Considering the players likely to play in said series, who has better
a) starting pitching
b) bullpen
c) hitting
d) fielding

I would contend that the Astros have a slight advantage in both A and B, the Cardinals have a significant advantage in C, and D is pretty much even (though I haven't done my homework on that, I just remember hearing both teams' fielding moderately praised...is one side clearly better fielding the baseball?).

Obviously, lots of other factors one could look at...hitting with men on base, baserunning, coaching, home field advantage, health/rest of players, etc.

But in those four areas, I think the slight edge in starting and bullpen pitching puts the Astros almost even with a team whose lineup is clearly better. I make the series about 52.5-47.5 in STL's favor -- therefore, I like most of the lines I've seen on the series for a bet on Houston.

Re: Cardinals-Astros Matchups
 

I am neither for Houston or St Louis. Here is my take.

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Starting pitching:
Carpenter is the only "ace" quality pitcher on the Cards' staff, and he is unproven in the playoffs. Morris is close to this level and he seems to be improving as of late. The Astro's set of aces has the upper hand on the Card's pair.

(Edge: Astros)


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I think it's funny you forget to mention arguably the Cardinals best pitcher, Mark Mulder. He is also an ace. While the three aces of Houston are CLEARLY better than the three aces of St. Louis, you fail to take into account the beating St Louis hands Houston at 4th starter with Suppan vs Backe. Overall, the edge still goes to Houston, but it is not nearly as big as you portray.

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Bullpen:
Houston's bullpen is much improved this year. Qualls and Wheeler have emerged this season to provide dependable setup work to get to Lidge. Outside of Isringhausen the Card's bullpen is quite inconsistent.

(Edge: Astros)


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To say the St. Louis is inconsistent is just plain wrong. They've got a front line closer in Isringhausen, they've got quality set up men in Julian Tavarez and Al Reyas (2.12 ERA 0.93 WHIP), and they've got a quality lefty in Ray King. I don't trust Mike Galo as the lone lefty out of the Houston pen. Again, I'm going to agree with you that Houston has the edge, but it's not nearly as big as you make out. The real difference is that Lidge is so much better than any other pitcher on either staff. After the closers, St. Louis is better.

Offense

I'm not going to rate every position, but the offense as a whole. Even without Scott Rolen, the Cardinals have a HUGE edge offensively. I don't think anyone will argue since St. Louis scored 111 more runs during the regular season.

Defense

Defense is an often overlooked aspect of the game, yet still very important. St. Louis has a big edge in CF and RF with Edmonds and Walker, and Houston has a big edge at short with Everett. Everywhere else is pretty close, with the exception of THE MOST IMPORTANT DEFENSIVE POSTITION, and one you convienently left out of your analysis. Catcher. Ausmus was great defensively in his youth, and is still pretty darn good. But Yadir Molina might be the best defensive catcher to come along since Ivan Rodriguez, and is CLEARLY the best in the game right now. Big defensive advantage to the Cards.

Overall, the Cardinals have to be a pretty good favorite. Lucky for you Astro fans, anything can happen in a seven game series.

Re: Cardinals-Astros Matchups
 

I left Mulder out for a reason. No, I do not think he has "ace" quality stuff. The guy has a 3.64 ERA and has been inconsistent. And Ray King is a quality lefty out of the bullpen? That's funny. The Astros have hammered him.

Yes, I omitted the catcher position but if you want to add that that just strengthen's my case even further. People can be enamored with Molina's arm all they want, Ausmus is still the better defensive catcher. Actually looking at the stats he's better offensively too.

The Cards were simply better last year with Womack, Renteria, Matheney, Scott Rolen, and Woody Williams.

Re: Cardinals-Astros Matchups
 

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The Cards were simply better last year with Womack, Renteria, Matheney, Scott Rolen, and Woody Williams.

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As opposed to the 05 versions of Grudz, Eckstein, Molina, Nunez, Carpenter and Mulder?

Pass the hippie lettuce, you've got some really good stuff.

Re: Cardinals-Astros Matchups
 

Mark Mulder's arguably the best pitcher of the Cardinals? Hahahahahahaha.

Re: Cardinals-Astros Matchups
 

And the Cards have hammered Oswalt. What's your point?

Re: Cardinals-Astros Matchups
 

As an Astro fan and a former college catcher I have to say that Molina is a much better defensive catcher. Ausmus recieves the ball better but I think a guy that throws 1.8s to 2nd, blocks everything, and recieves the ball better than most other catchers in the league is pretty good. Ausmus may be able to handle the game better in regards to pitch selection/game management but honestly there were three steals in that game 4 in Hou vs. Atl that really could have cost the Astros the game because Ausmus throwing 2.00 to second doesn't cut it with some of our slower delivery guys on the mound, ie Lidge. A stolen base in late innings can make the difference in the game.

Outside of Taveras not many guys on our roster have the ability to even try to take a bag on Molina. He shuts down the running game.

Re: Cardinals-Astros Matchups
 

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Hou has more veteran leaders though.

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What happened to Reggie Sanders, Larry Walker, Jim Edmonds and Albert Pujols? I don't think veteran leaders is a St Louis weakness.

Thank you,

Jim Kuhn
Catfish4u
[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Clemens, Pettitte, Bagwell, Biggio, Ausmus, Vizcaino, Palmeiro (probably doesn't count much). All of these guys are over 35 I believe, and have years of experience under their belts. Edmonds and Pujols? lol. I'll give you Sanders, Walker, and Izzy.

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That's true. Edmonds hasn't been around that long, nor been very successful.

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You're right, STL has more veteran leaders.

Re: Cardinals-Astros Matchups
 

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STL's bullpen is a better than Houston's.

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I just want to clear this up, once and for all. STL's bullpen is not better than Houston's. Let's take the five relievers used by the Astros in the NLDS (and the five likely to be used in the NLCS)...those five are:

Brad Lidge
Dan Wheeler
Chad Qualls
Mike Gallo
Russ Springer

Their collective regular season ERA is 2.65.

Now let's look at the five NLDS relievers in the St. Louis bullpen. Those are: Jason Isringhausen, Randy Flores, Julian Tavarez, Brad Thomson, and Cal Eldred (you've forgotten, Reyes is gone...out for playoffs, not even on the postseason roster...unless he's gotten better, I haven't heard about it, and STL adds him into the NLCS roster).

Their collective regular season ERA is 3.14.

An ERA gap of .59 is not made up for by your assertion that STL's fifth starter makes such a better reliever than Wandy Rodriguez does. Even if I go ahead and grant that he does, considering the lack of likelihood that a guy like Wandy even sees any meaningful innings with the Astros starters' ability to go deep AND the pen around him.....PLUS considering that in the late games of the series, Backe and Pettitte will be available for relief (and even Oswalt in Game 7)...I think any perceived difference in the fifth-starter-as-reliever role is pretty well diminished, and to determine the better bullpen, you just buckle down and look at ERA.

I'll take the 2.65 over the 3.14 any day of the week...especially seeing how brilliantly the 2.65 performed in the ATL series.

Anyway, just wanted to clear up any rumors of the Cardinals having a better bullpen than the Astros.

This should frame the debate. There are four major areas one must look at in determining who has a better chance in a series. Considering the players likely to play in said series, who has better
a) starting pitching
b) bullpen
c) hitting
d) fielding

I would contend that the Astros have a slight advantage in both A and B, the Cardinals have a significant advantage in C, and D is pretty much even (though I haven't done my homework on that, I just remember hearing both teams' fielding moderately praised...is one side clearly better fielding the baseball?).

Obviously, lots of other factors one could look at...hitting with men on base, baserunning, coaching, home field advantage, health/rest of players, etc.

But in those four areas, I think the slight edge in starting and bullpen pitching puts the Astros almost even with a team whose lineup is clearly better. I make the series about 52.5-47.5 in STL's favor -- therefore, I like most of the lines I've seen on the series for a bet on Houston.

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Very good job. You should definitely add speed to your 4 criteria though. HOU has more basestealers. But I think all of your assertions are very close to correct.

Like I said, and you agree with, any money on the Astros as a (decently-significant) underdog is probably the bet to take.

Re: Cardinals-Astros Matchups
 

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Outside of Taveras not many guys on our roster have the ability to even try to take a bag on Molina. He shuts down the running game.

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Chris Burke and Adam Everett (if he ever gets on base).

Sure, Burke is a legendary HR hitter* who recently hit the most famous HR in Astros history (Sorry Jeff Kent), but he's also pretty darn fast.

*I'm kidding of course.

Re: Cardinals-Astros Matchups
 

Veterans are overratted. What does having a guy like Vizcano coming off our the Houston bench really have to do with the overall matchup. I really don't see him being the difference maker in the entire series.


Look at all that playoff experience the Yankees had, big whoop.

Re: Cardinals-Astros Matchups
 

Everett hasn't even faked a steal in the postseason yet, (or any of the Astros for that matter). Everett really isn't in a position in the lineup that leads him to steal with Ausmus and the pitcher spot up behind him. And Burke might steal one as a pitch runner I guess. He is fast but you would need a pretty slow to the plate pitcher to really be able to call a straight steal on Molina with any confidence.

I am not too worried about the Card's running game either just an look at the catching matchup.

To Brad's credit I think he might be one of only a few catchers in the league who could handle Lidge's stuff with such ease.

Re: Cardinals-Astros Matchups
 

A guy who can play first, second, third, short, pinch hit, has won a WS with NYY in 2000 and is very knowledgable about the game and whose teammates highly respect?

Nah, that can't be a good thing... you're right. We will leave him off the roster and let the purchase the batboy's contract from Clear Creek High School and let him fill that spot.

Do STL fans know how versatile our bench is?

Let me break it down:

Luke Scott (left handed rookie...has HR power...plays outfield. No big woop)

Orlando Palmeiro (veteran left-handed PHer who also started several games in OF this year and at one point was hitting .330)

Jose Vizcaino (veteran who can PH, switch hit, and play any INF position. Also plenty comfy starting)

Chris Burke (Rookie. Can play 2nd or LF. Has some power, has good speed. Suitable for late-inning PRing. Hit almost .250 this year with 40-something RBI's in rookie campaign while having to learn LF. As we know, capable of delivering longball in series changing situations [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img])

Raul Chavez (Backup catcher with little PRO experience. No bat. Slight pop. Fat. Slow. But Oswalt likes him and that's why he's on the team.)

Eric Bruntlett (SUPER SUB. Can play 3rd, short, 2nd, first, LF, CF, RF. Can pinch-hit, or spot-start. Has a few game winning hits this season, including a 3 run homer in WASH in extras. Also a very good baserunner with his only slightly-fast speed. Well respected as a gamer)

Jeff Bagwell (Future Hall of famer. Can't play the field anymore but has already proven himself in PH role. Is available for late-inning game-changing situations. La Russa can't like knowing this.)

Re: Cardinals-Astros Matchups
 

See my previous post. You are right about Everett though, he's not confident in swiping bags, but he is fast. Bruntlett may be able to PR and steal too.

Don't underestimate Ausmus, he's a true gamer. He got hit in the throwing hand by a Cub near the end of the season, cut it up, stayed in the game and threw a guy out next inning who tried to steal. He was on the radio a few days ago saying that he still hasn't stitched it up, it's like an open wound. lol. Nasty.

Plus last year we played a game against Milwaukee that was tied and Podsednik was on 2nd. Base hit up the middle and Beltran threw home and Pods LEVELLED Ausmus but he held on to the ball to keep the game tied. We won it in extras and went on to win the wild card by 1 game last year [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] After the game Ausmus was checked on and he suffered a minor concussion on that play. What a gamer.

Re: Cardinals-Astros Matchups
 

[ QUOTE ]
See my previous post. You are right about Everett though, he's not confident in swiping bags, but he is fast. Bruntlett may be able to PR and steal too.

Don't underestimate Ausmus, he's a true gamer. He got hit in the throwing hand by a Cub near the end of the season, cut it up, stayed in the game and threw a guy out next inning who tried to steal. He was on the radio a few days ago saying that he still hasn't stitched it up, it's like an open wound. lol. Nasty.

Plus last year we played a game against Milwaukee that was tied and Podsednik was on 2nd. Base hit up the middle and Beltran threw home and Pods LEVELLED Ausmus but he held on to the ball to keep the game tied. We won it in extras and went on to win the wild card by 1 game last year [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] After the game Ausmus was checked on and he suffered a minor concussion on that play. What a gamer.

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No doubt I love Ausmus don't get me wrong but when we were talking stricly about the the better defensive catcher as far as ability the nod has to go to Molina.

Ausmus is swinging a hot bat right now though and has been for the last month.

I hope you are right about being able to grab a few bags but I don't see it happening to much. It all depends on who is on the mound. I am not familar with the Card Pitcher's times to home but they would need something pretty slow to grab one if Molina is putting it to second around 1.90 or under.

Re: Cardinals-Astros Matchups
 

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STL's bullpen is a better than Houston's. They're 4 deep (Ishringhausen, Reyes, Eldred, Tavarez) + whoever they decide not to make their 4th starter while Houston's is just 3 deep. Solid edge for STL there. You're going to need more than 3 guys in the bullpen if Clemens, Oswalt and Pettitte can't go 7+ innings consistently, but they probably can. Still, I'd rather have STL's depth.

SS, I think Eckstein contributes much more. You don't give up .1 of OPS and expect them to equal. Eck's glove just isn't that bad.

And you missed catcher.

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I can't believe that right now the Cards bullpen is better right now after they gave up 8 runs in three games to the Padres. Where as the Astros bullpen only gave up 5 runs in 4 games against a much better Braves team which included 2 runs in a game they were blowing them out in so they were just making the Braves put the ball in play vs. throwing their best out stuff.

Re: Cardinals-Astros Matchups
 

Nobody will run on Mulder/Molina.

But is Mulder even going to pitch this series, or is he still hurt?

Re: Cardinals-Astros Matchups
 

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All of these guys are over 35 I believe, and have years of experience under their belts.

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In sports age is not always your friend. (see Reggie Sanders and Larry Walker for examples).

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Edmonds and Pujols? lol.

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Maybe you should go read a book and take a break from posting. Your baseball ignorance is really shining through.

Thank you,

Jim Kuhn
Catfish4u
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Re: Cardinals-Astros Matchups
 

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which included 2 runs in a game they were blowing them out in so they were just making the Braves put the ball in play vs. throwing their best out stuff.

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I think someone may have missed the scores of the Cardinal's games?

Thank you,

Jim Kuhn
Catfish4u
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Re: Cardinals-Astros Matchups
 

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All of these guys are over 35 I believe, and have years of experience under their belts.

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In sports age is not always your friend. (see Reggie Sanders and Larry Walker for examples).

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Edmonds and Pujols? lol.

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Maybe you should go read a book and take a break from posting. Your baseball ignorance is really shining through.

Thank you,

Jim Kuhn
Catfish4u
[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

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I made a point that the Stros have more vet. leaders than the Cardinals. Anyone who argues that is insane. Pujols is like 25??

Clemens, Pettitte, Ausmus, Biggio, Bagwell, Vizcaino, Palmeiro..... the Cards have Walker, Sanders, and Edmonds sort-of as a vet. leader but I don't know what kind of clubhouse guy he is. It's highly publicized that all of the Astros I've named are knowledgable of the game, have years of experience, and are great in the clubhouse.

Please don't argue this, it makes you look really really foolish, bro.

Re: Cardinals-Astros Matchups
 

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All of these guys are over 35 I believe, and have years of experience under their belts.

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In sports age is not always your friend. (see Reggie Sanders and Larry Walker for examples).

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Edmonds and Pujols? lol.

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Maybe you should go read a book and take a break from posting. Your baseball ignorance is really shining through.

Thank you,

Jim Kuhn
Catfish4u
[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

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I made a point that the Stros have more vet. leaders than the Cardinals. Anyone who argues that is insane. Pujols is like 25??

Clemens, Pettitte, Ausmus, Biggio, Bagwell, Vizcaino, Palmeiro..... the Cards have Walker, Sanders, and Edmonds sort-of as a vet. leader but I don't know what kind of clubhouse guy he is. It's highly publicized that all of the Astros I've named are knowledgable of the game, have years of experience, and are great in the clubhouse.

Please don't argue this, it makes you look really really foolish, bro.

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Maybe, but Vet. leadership means SQUAT at the end of the day. You gotta play the game on the field, not in the dugout! If it was up to vet. leadership, the Braves would of won hands down because Julio Franco is worth like 15 vet. leaders by himself!

Re: Cardinals-Astros Matchups
 

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which included 2 runs in a game they were blowing them out in so they were just making the Braves put the ball in play vs. throwing their best out stuff.

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I think someone may have missed the scores of the Cardinal's games?

Thank you,

Jim Kuhn
Catfish4u
[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

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There have been several people in this thread making qaulity arguments and backing them up with stats and insight. You aren't doing any of this.

Stop posting air. Please, try to offer some insight so we can understand your brilliant thought process