Flopped nuts turns to scary huge pot
 

Villain is 66/28/2. My only note is that with TT overpair he bet very weakly on flop and turn. I hadn't seen many hands but my impression was that he bets strong unless he has a hand. Am I a calling station?

PokerRoom No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (5 handed) converter

MP ($130.85)
Button ($100.40)
SB ($151.60)
Hero ($138.50)
UTG ($262.70)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises to $4</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB calls $3.50, Hero calls $3.

Flop: ($12) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $14</font>, Hero calls $14, MP folds.

Turn: ($40) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $45</font>, Hero calls $45.

River: ($130) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $88.6 (All-In)</font>, Hero calls $75.50 (All-In).

Final Pot: $294.10

Re: Flopped nuts turns to scary huge pot
 

bad flop to slowplay. I raise that flop 100% of the time with a flush draw out there.

As played, push the turn in case he has a single club, cause it's too late to fold.

Re: Flopped nuts turns to scary huge pot
 

Well if you apply your notes AND look at how cordinated the flop is, then this is an ideal situation to raise the flop and get it all in.

Re: Flopped nuts turns to scary huge pot
 

yes, many scary cards, your hands will not improve.. you may get counterfeit, flush draw, a paired board,

you might as well raise the flop and make him pay for the draw if hes already willing to put in 3/4 pot.

Re: Flopped nuts turns to scary huge pot
 

I'd probably raise the flop. However, I think it's unlikely that SB is overbetting the pot on a flush draw. I think hero should worry more about a board pairing than a flush here. With MP yet to act on the flop though I think you should raise the flop.

Re: Flopped nuts turns to scary huge pot
 

I like the flop call. There are a lot of hands SB can have here, you are way ahead of. Also MP could come along for a ride. Play passive and let SB hang himself.

I probably call the turn too. After his bet obviously a made flush is a possibility, but so is 2 pair, a set, another JQ or even AK trying to protect his hand. In fact, he bet the flop kind of strong for a draw. I'd say you are about even money and if he has the flush, you do have slight redraw possibilites with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] .Maybe you should push here. Your money is going in anyway.

Re: Flopped nuts turns to scary huge pot
 

never slowplay straights

Re: Flopped nuts turns to scary huge pot
 

[ QUOTE ]
never slowplay straights

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This is a silly generalization. I come from the school of thought that says fast-playing is the new slow-playing, and the best way to win a big pot is by playing the nuts or a monster very fast.

In this case, though, if you're certain that the villain will continue to hang himself, I think it's decision time. If you decide that he will continue to lead hard at the pot no matter what comes, you've got to decide that another club will not get you off the hand and calling might be a better option -- a raise could chase him away.

However, you've said that villain wouldn't seem to bet with air, and in the rare case that he is on a flush draw, a raise to $35 or so would be appropriate. You've also got the other opponent behind.

So I would say bomb this flop, comfortable that you're likely to get action from the villain and with a small possibility that you'll get action from the other opponent. ALMOST always play a hand like this fast -- but don't blindly decide to play a straight the same way every time.

Re: Flopped nuts turns to scary huge pot
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
never slowplay straights

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a silly generalization. I come from the school of thought that says fast-playing is the new slow-playing, and the best way to win a big pot is by playing the nuts or a monster very fast.

In this case, though, if you're certain that the villain will continue to hang himself, I think it's decision time. If you decide that he will continue to lead hard at the pot no matter what comes, you've got to decide that another club will not get you off the hand and calling might be a better option -- a raise could chase him away.

However, you've said that villain wouldn't seem to bet with air, and in the rare case that he is on a flush draw, a raise to $35 or so would be appropriate. You've also got the other opponent behind.

So I would say bomb this flop, comfortable that you're likely to get action from the villain and with a small possibility that you'll get action from the other opponent. ALMOST always play a hand like this fast -- but don't blindly decide to play a straight the same way every time.

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It most certainly is not a silly generalization. Straights are totally vulnerable - especially when there's a flush draw out there and people are leading into you.

Re: Flopped nuts turns to scary huge pot
 

This is a bad flat call. I am guilty of making the same move, but it will come back to haunt you often enough.

I'm definitley raising this flop. To what amount I dont know, but I might employ a push here. I think a large "over-raise" here will/might accomplish 3 things ....

1. Appear weak.
2. Definitley protect your hand
3. Although it wont result in a call as often, I think it might be more +EV then a standard raise.

I'm not saying its definitley the right move, just giving an arguement for it.

Re: Flopped nuts turns to scary huge pot
 

[/ QUOTE ] It most certainly is not a silly generalization. Straights are totally vulnerable - especially when there's a flush draw out there and people are leading into you.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not saying I like slow-playing a made hand. I'm just saying that if you're up against a guy who is 66/28, sometimes you simply have to decide that villain is not drawing to a flush. If you shut down every time the third of a suit comes on board, you'll get blown out of big pots too easily.

That said, I would have also bombed this flop, especially with another opponent in the hand.

Re: Flopped nuts turns to scary huge pot
 

Heads up, I agree with a flop raise. However, we still have the PF raiser in the hand. I'd like him to come along with his AK or KQ. A big raise here might scare off AA.

I don't think we can start putting every SB overbet on a draw here, particularly with the given read. I think JQ, KT, K9, AK, 99, TT are more likely. Your straight is only vulnerable to a set making a boat (I can live with 2 pair drawing to 4 outs)

On the turn, you have to either fold or push. If you call and he doesn't have the nut flush another [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] is going to kill your action on the river.

Re: Flopped nuts turns to scary huge pot
 

I'm curious to find out what villian had...

Re: Flopped nuts turns to scary huge pot
 

[ QUOTE ]
Well if you apply your notes AND look at how cordinated the flop is, then this is an ideal situation to raise the flop and get it all in.

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From his betting patterns I thought he was bluffing a lot. With my note I thought he is a very inexperienced player who doesn't know how to protect a hand. Overall I expect there is a good chance he is is way behind. I'm not sure what it is about my note that makes you think he will call a substantial raise/get it all in?

Re: Flopped nuts turns to scary huge pot
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm curious to find out what villian had...

[/ QUOTE ]

A4o (no clubs) [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Re: Flopped nuts turns to scary huge pot
 

raise flop to 35-40 range. If for some reason you decide to misclick and don't raise the flop-- then push the turn for sure. When you're deep stacked you have to fast play made hands against LAG's.