Trying new things -- betting into a 4 flush w/ fold if raised strategy
 

I NEVER bet into a four flush on the board without one of that suit, so I tried it here.

Bet or check/call this river and why?

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP1 calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, MP1 folds, Button calls.

Flop: (7.66 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button calls.

Turn: (4.83 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button calls.

River: (6.83 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 9.83 BB

Re: Trying new things -- betting into a 4 flush w/ fold if raised strategy
 

I think you should check call as you have a middling strength hand. Lead with total garbage or with a good flush.

Re: Trying new things -- betting into a 4 flush w/ fold if raised strategy
 

A lot of people will play precisely the way the villain did without the flush as well, assuming they had everyone's favorite holding.

Barron Vangor Toth
www.BarronVangorToth.com

Re: Trying new things -- betting into a 4 flush w/ fold if raised strategy
 

Only reason not to bet river is if you think opponent is capable of raising on a bluff.

Re: Trying new things -- betting into a 4 flush w/ fold if raised strategy
 

I want to see a showdown here with top set. If you had AK, then this line is probably ok. Some, not a lot but still a decent percentage of, opponents are capable of raising the river here with KJ/JJ or some other rag two pair like J8. A few are capable of raising as a pure bluff.
Unless I know an opponent very well, I'm seeing a showdown, either by check-calling or by bet-calling.

Re: Trying new things -- betting into a 4 flush w/ fold if raised strategy
 

Given the way the hand played out, there is little difference whether the original poster holds KK or AK. I think the hand was played right except (as Nikla points out) if you are up against a guy who will bluff raise the river here with about the right frequencey. Against a habitual known bluffer, you would either checkcall, or bet and call a raise.

Re: Trying new things -- betting into a 4 flush w/ fold if raised stra
 

[ QUOTE ]
A few are capable of raising as a pure bluff.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm having trouble seeing how the opponent could have made it to the river with a hand that would qualify here as a pure bluff.

Re: Trying new things -- betting into a 4 flush w/ fold if raised strategy
 

I've definitely been raised here multiple times by someone with no spade (usually a missed straight draw or weak pair). I would check call.

Re: Trying new things -- betting into a 4 flush w/ fold if raised stra
 

It's happened to me before. As I said, it's not likely but it will happen against a few party donkey.

Re: Trying new things -- betting into a 4 flush w/ fold if raised stra
 

Think of it this way. If you bet and fold to a raise, you invest a bet and dont showdown, rarley getting called by worse hands. If you check call, you get to showdown a reasonable hand, induce a bluff, and get a free showdown. How is it even close?