Bottom Pair with benefits, also let\'s play Guess-the-Hand
 

Nothing remarkable about this table, no one stood out as being particularly good or aggro postflop.

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls, CO calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (4 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP folds, CO calls, SB folds.

Turn: (3 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero...

First of all, I think I can bet this flop for value with my possibilities for two pair or a straight, but I'm not sure if spiking a ten would be a good idea. We're heads up on the turn, do I fire away again?

In case that hand wasn't enough, you can also play the Guess-the-Hand minigame in THIS VERY THREAD OH YEAH. Never seen this villain before. Who wants to take a stab? Also, who 3-bets this preflop against a complete unknown? I was rather tempted....

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $0.50.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls, <font color="#CC3333">CO (poster) raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, BB calls, MP calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, MP checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets</font>, Hero calls, BB folds, MP folds.

Turn: (5 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (7 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, CO calls.

Final Pot: 15 BB

Re: Bottom Pair with benefits, also let\'s play Guess-the-Hand
 

I'd feel better about hand 1 if there were 3 players and 1 check to me. I guess my play would depend on more specific reads.

Hand 2, I'm not so sure about the flop peel. You've got .5-1 outs for the straight draw if there are no Aces out, 1.5 for the flush draw, and maybe 3 outs for the K and Q if they are good, and/or if they aren't duplicated in the preflop raiser's hand. This is 5 outs being super generous, and you don't even close the action. I would fold here.

Re: Bottom Pair with benefits, also let\'s play Guess-the-Hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'd feel better about hand 1 if there were 3 players and 1 check to me. I guess my play would depend on more specific reads.

Hand 2, I'm not so sure about the flop peel. You've got .5-1 outs for the straight draw if there are no Aces out, 1.5 for the flush draw, and maybe 3 outs for the K and Q if they are good, and/or if they aren't duplicated in the preflop raiser's hand. This is 5 outs being super generous, and you don't even close the action. I would fold here.

[/ QUOTE ]

A zero-gapper straight is 1.5 outs, and what's this talk about there being an ace out there, that won't affect a straight [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

I don't think we need to discount the K or Q outs too much, as they're already discounted by half when we assign them 1.5 each. Add in the flush draw and we have 6 max, again maybe giving us 5 or 5.5. A checkraise is possible, but that doesn't happen a whole lot at these tables so I'm not too worried. Getting 9 to 1 I'm pretty sure it's a call, and if it's loose it's not by much--I could make that up with implied odds if I hit a draw (as I did).

Re: Bottom Pair with benefits, also let\'s play Guess-the-Hand
 

Hand 2 is an easy fold. I can't see how you could possibly value that hand as a 5-outer and you act right after the bettor.

Re: Bottom Pair with benefits, also let\'s play Guess-the-Hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
A zero-gapper straight is 1.5 outs, and what's this talk about there being an ace out there, that won't affect a straight [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]
he's saying that an ace out there takes up one card you would need to make brodway (which doesn't matter). what does matter is that JQK is not worth 1.5 outs.

TJQ is because it can make 89TJQ, 9TJQK, and TJQKA.

JQK can only make 9TJQK and TJQKA.

the math isn't hard but i've never taken the time to do it.

Re: Bottom Pair with benefits, also let\'s play Guess-the-Hand
 

hand #2: besides the fact you should 3-bet preflop, peeling is okay.

3 outs for K/Q (flush draws and reverse domination), 1.5 BDFD, 1 BDSD (discounted for possible Ace): so everything is severly discounted, but still for flush draws and Aces, and reverse dominated hands and what not. need 8:1 to break even, getting 9:1 w/o SB/BB. sure we're not closing the action, but we can fold if it is 2 back to us and what hands are c/r on this board?

small pocket pairs aren't. a J may, but so what? if CO has a bigger hand, he'll probably raise again: we fold. if CO doesn't raise, we're in the same situation as we were before but a bigger pot now.

Re: Bottom Pair with benefits, also let\'s play Guess-the-Hand
 

Hand1: I don`t bet the flop. Against 3 opponents there is almost always somebody who beats us and wants to comtinue. We do not like our t outs as well.
I`d bet the turn as we may fold a pair of 9s.

Hand2: I think it`s good.

Re: Bottom Pair with benefits, also let\'s play Guess-the-Hand
 

&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;
Preflop: Hero is SB with K, Q. CO posts a blind of $0.50.
1 fold, MP calls, CO (poster) raises, 1 fold, Hero calls, BB calls, MP calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 7, J, 2 (4 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, MP checks, CO bets, Hero calls, BB folds, MP folds.

Turn: (5 BB) 4 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero calls.

River: (7 BB) 9 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero raises, CO 3-bets, Hero caps, CO calls.

Final Pot: 15 BB
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;

Bad beat maybe with the CO having A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]?

Re: Bottom Pair with benefits, also let\'s play Guess-the-Hand
 

Hand 1: I don't bet the flop, though I do call one. The way you played it, I bet the turn, but this sort of illustrates why I don't like the flop bet. I really don't want to bet this but a check is just an open invitation for CO to take the pot away from me. I have no idea where I stand here.

Hand 2: Yes, I 3-bet this PF. Calling the flop is fine. The rest plays itself. I guess you lost to A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] but that's too obvious. Given that you're posting this, I'll guess 99.

Re: Bottom Pair with benefits, also let\'s play Guess-the-Hand
 

Hand one, Check fold the turn IMO. Weak but i'd rather get out of this tiny pot with a poor hand.

Hand two,
The flop call with 4clean outs(Diamonds are dirty) and BDFD is fine, Turn and river seem standard.

Him 3betting is strange, He usually this aggressive? 8T? Nuts flush?

Just noticed its 6handed, Not used to this.

Re: Bottom Pair with benefits, also let\'s play Guess-the-Hand
 

&lt;&lt;&lt; In case that hand wasn't enough, you can also play the Guess-the-Hand minigame in THIS VERY THREAD OH YEAH. Never seen this villain before. Who wants to take a stab? Also, who 3-bets this preflop against a complete unknown? I was rather tempted.... &gt;&gt;&gt;

The disadvantage to your three-bet is on his side not yours. He just sat down and you are three-betting him. When a guy sits down it's the best time to see if he's passive weak or aggressive and I'll lose a bet or two just to find that out now rather than later. I'm already in for two bets so might as well make it three for a bit more information that may help on later rounds.

Re: Bottom Pair with benefits, also let\'s play Guess-the-Hand
 

Hand 2: CO essentially put as much money as he could into this pot, from beginning to end. Maybe a pocket pair, flopped into a set ? JJ/77 ?

BTW, I so fold this flop (yeah, I'm weak-tight).

Thomas-

Re: Bottom Pair with benefits, also let\'s play Guess-the-Hand
 

My guess is the guys loose - raised with J9s from the CO. 3 bet might be nice, but I'm kinda weak and I probably wouldn't have done it against an unkown.

Just remembered this is 6-max. He could have maybe A9o and overplayed it.

Re: Bottom Pair with benefits, also let\'s play Guess-the-Hand
 

And some results:

Hand 1: I bet here mostly as a semi-bluff, villain folded. The pot was small though; if I had to do it over again I'd probably reconsider my line.

Hand 2: Villain had 44. Yup.

Edit: This actually wan't 6-max per se, just a 10-max game that never really took off.

Re: Bottom Pair with benefits, also let\'s play Guess-the-Hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1: I bet here mostly as a semi-bluff, villain folded. The pot was small though; if I had to do it over again I'd probably reconsider my line.

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting hand, I like betting as a semi-bluff here as well.

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2: Villain had 44. Yup.

[/ QUOTE ]

Should have just called the river c/r but he played the rest fine.