Re: $109s - Ok This Ones More Interesting
 

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Solid multitablers don't try to call other solid multitablers' turn bets from the blinds trying to take it away on the river. Gigabet can do that once in a while, but the average 109 6 tabler? No.


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Who said Unarmed was a solid multitabler? I'm not sure most/many posters on here even know who he is or would peg him as a 2+2er (I could be way off on that though). He didn't say what the villian knew about him....so I assume the villian knows nothing.

IMO, Unarmeds turn bet screams (I'd like to buy the pot now) and calling with overs, a naked ace, or anything frankly, isn't entirely unreasonable. However, villian really should/would come out firing on the river as it's a v nice one for him.

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The draw just hit (come on man, I get pissed once in a while because no one ever reads the whole post) and middle pair may call because the river card is low. KQ or Ax not only don't call this turn, they don't limp in the first place.


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Well...I read the whole post...but I'm very, very dumb. So please bear with me. I don't think the solid mutlitabler is on a flush draw....you do? That surprises me....that turn bet seems like too much to call if you are lookin' for a flush to hit.

Anyway...what *does* a solid mutlitabler call with in the CO there? I'd say any two if the conditions are right....but okay....few would do that. So lets say smallish pocket pairs and that's about it? Well, is villian prepared to call that down after the river puts down another club?

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As for why you bet a jack...it's a J94 board. The SB has nothing. The CO limped and apparently you don't put him on aces. Who wants to give free cards here? Anyone?

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I'll give a free card on that board if my opponent has a penchant for firing on the turn after a checked flop.

Yugoslav

Re: $109s - Ok This Ones More Interesting
 

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Why is everyone worried about the draw? Villain checked behind on the flop...

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I'm sure as hell not worried about the draw....

I'm worried he has a pp that will call you down.

Yugoslav

Re: $109s - Ok This Ones More Interesting
 

If I were villain with a pocket pair I would have bet the flop when checked to me. This is not self evident but I assume most people would.

So, if he is not so often on a pocket pair, then he is on a draw. Or presumably 2 draws because he called a relatively big turn bet. Or a draw with overs. Or a draw + gigabet pot-take-away-intentions.

Conclusion (I suck at this): the most likely of the two draws hit on the river so I think betting 600 is too much.

Re: $109s - Ok This Ones More Interesting
 

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Villain multis and has played staight forward thus far.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (6 handed) converter

SB (t1050)
Hero (t1145)
UTG (t1875)
MP (t840)
CO (t2090)
Button (t3000)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, CO calls t150, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (t450) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, CO checks.

Turn: (t450) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t275</font>, CO calls t275, SB folds.

River: (t1000) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t600</font>

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What do you put him on, because I think his calling range is pretty loose here getting 3:1. I think you've done a decent job of showing strength, but I don't know if it matters in this spot. I don't know if a 9 is folding because of no one ever wants to believe trips getting odds that good. But seriously, what do you put him on? I think when the OP discusses this it helps the whole debate.

Re: $109s - Ok This Ones More Interesting
 

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Why is everyone worried about the draw? Villain checked behind on the flop...

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Unarmed is too kind. A "solid multi-tabler" has a club draw here exactly zero percent of the time, and if you don't know that you should always either push or fold on the flop.

Irieguy

Re: $109s - Ok This Ones More Interesting
 

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Who said Unarmed was a solid multitabler?

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The other guy doesn't have to know he's Unarmed to know he's played 50 games with Unarmed's screenname.

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Anyway...what *does* a solid mutlitabler call with in the CO there? I'd say any two if the conditions are right....but okay....few would do that. So lets say smallish pocket pairs and that's about it? Well, is villian prepared to call that down after the river puts down another club?

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I think something like T9s or Axs can very well open limp on this particular level against an aggressive blind defender but any two is too loose. But you're right, he probably doesn't have the draw. I do, however, think that it's a consideration.

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I'll give a free card on that board if my opponent has a penchant for firing on the turn after a checked flop.

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If I have J6o, I count roughly 20-something cards that I will hate on the turn, plus a few that set the other guy I won't know about.

Re: $109s - Ok This Ones More Interesting
 

I skimmed the prior responses, and i thought some great points were made. But i feel the obvious has been neglected.

Hero fired at the turn, on the assumption he will often pick it up. *This* time, he was flat called.

RIVER: Hero acts first, holds SIX HIGH. Has t600. Pot: t1000.

You cant win if you check, duh, so what does that leave you with? Push ends your tourney if called, but you have t1600 instead of t600 for the next hand.

If i wake up in this situation, i just push the damn river and hope he folds. And i also multitable in a "semi-solid" manner.

BL'
August stats
SNG played: 0
Holes golfed: &gt;350
Sabbatical kicks ass. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]


* also, a 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] river doesnt look too scary to me. You can put someone on any hand to fit half the deck.

Re: $109s - Ok This Ones More Interesting
 

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Unarmed is too kind. A "solid multi-tabler" has a club draw here exactly zero percent of the time, and if you don't know that you should always either push or fold on the flop.

Irieguy

[/ QUOTE ] OK, so what do you put villian on here? If he has a pp, would he check behind on the flop? Would he call the turn and fold to a push at the end? If he's a solid multi-tabler with a pp and put Unarmed on a flush draw, wouldn't he have raised on the turn? I really have a hard time putting villian on any hand here that folds enough to make this bluff worthwhile.

Re: $109s - Ok This Ones More Interesting
 

Why are you guys all focused on what he has? Frankly, I have no idea what he had. Not a J and not a flush, and that's pretty much all I need to know there.

Re: $109s - Ok This Ones More Interesting
 

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I skimmed the prior responses, and i thought some great points were made. But i feel the obvious has been neglected.

Hero fired at the turn, on the assumption he will often pick it up. *This* time, he was flat called.

RIVER: Hero acts first, holds SIX HIGH. Has t600. Pot: t1000.

You cant win if you check, duh, so what does that leave you with? Push ends your tourney if called, but you have t1600 instead of t600 for the next hand.

If i wake up in this situation, i just push the damn river and hope he folds. And i also multitable in a "semi-solid" manner.

BL'
August stats
SNG played: 0
Holes golfed: &gt;350
Sabbatical kicks ass. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]


* also, a 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] river doesnt look too scary to me. You can put someone on any hand to fit half the deck.

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Good point. Damned if you do, slightly more damned if you don't. I personally hate the turn bet.