How often should you muck A2 pre flop?
 

In limit Om8 of course.

Give some examples please.

Thanks in advance,

KC50

Re: How often should you muck A2 pre flop?
 

I've never done it.

Re: How often should you muck A2 pre flop?
 

You're on the button:

raise, reriase, cap, all would be limpers have folded.

Do you call a cap cold with A2T7 rainbow?

Re: How often should you muck A2 pre flop?
 

Depends on the game, as always. Most of the scenarios involve facing a raise (from a tight and/or predictable raiser) when you A2 is weak (i.e. A279r).

Re: How often should you muck A2 pre flop?
 

A naked A2 with nothing else I've done before in the face of large raises or multiple raisers preflop. An A2 with a 3 or 4 for protection, that would be a tougher one to laydown. Playing PL with only a shot for the low against a tight player that pots, A249r could be laydown depending on position and such.

With a bad A2 (A28Qr), Pot Limit with a Pot Raise, I'll fold if I expect to go to the flop Heads Up in bad position.

Does this make me too tight?

Re: How often should you muck A2 pre flop?
 

No it doesn't make you too tight. I fold A2 occasionally in PL. But the OP was about limit O8--perhaps in a strong lineup, folding A2 from time to time is correct, but in an average Party game I'd never do it.

Re: How often should you muck A2 pre flop?
 

I have never mucked A2, and probobly never will.

Re: How often should you muck A2 pre flop?
 

In today's game, I think this would be a mistake. There are just so many limpers, so much dead money. Yes, sometimes I lose a little money on A2, but it more than makes up for it those times that I am not quartered or 1/6th, those times when they chased A3 or 23 all the way and I get 50% or more.

FWIW, I've never had to call four bets cold (or more) pre-flop with a bare A2 in limit. I've laid down a bare A2 in PLO8.

I've also laid down a bare A2 post-flop in O8, even when it is the nut low. Yes, there were either two or three other opponents with a bare A2, and the pot was small.

This would be a good question for Ray Zee. When he talked about rarely laying down a bare A2 pre-flop, the games were much tighter. In today's game of 80% seeing the flop, I think he would say it's a crime.

Felicia [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: How often should you muck A2 pre flop?
 

In low limit games, I don't lay down A2 before the flop. In 08 tourneys, I will lay down A2 before the flop when the game is tight and I have nothing with my A 2 (like A 2 7 9 and not suited) There are times when you have to invest a good portion of your stack on a good hand to play and a naked A 2 with nothing else is a hand I pass on.

Re: How often should you muck A2 pre flop?
 

[ QUOTE ]
In today's game of 80% seeing the flop, I think he would say it's a crime.

Felicia [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]


Whoa...what sites are you playing at? With 20k plus hands at each level on the party skins, I have the following saw flop table percentages:
3/6---- 40.24
2/4---- 43.49
1/2---- 47.18
.5/1--- 50

I try to play during peak fish time too (late night in the US)

not to hijack the thread too much, but it seems odd that the average low limit o8 game, except maybe .5/1, does not fit "Cappelletti's Rule" of 3 or more people besides the blinds seeing the flop. Do you have to play live to find such games? It seemed like the Wynn's 6/12 was looser than party 1/2...LOL.

Re: How often should you muck A2 pre flop?
 

[ QUOTE ]
It seemed like the Wynn's 6/12 was looser than party 1/2...LOL.

[/ QUOTE ]

I noticed this as well, the live limit high low games are so much looser than the online ones, its not even close and the limits are much higher. Anyone got an explanation for this?

Re: How often should you muck A2 pre flop?
 

Yeah, the really good Omaha/8 games are almost exclusively live, especially if you want to play middle limits. I suspect that the comments about 80% seeing a flop refer to microlimit games, which play much differently.

Re: How often should you muck A2 pre flop?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It seemed like the Wynn's 6/12 was looser than party 1/2...LOL.

[/ QUOTE ]

I noticed this as well, the live limit high low games are so much looser than the online ones, its not even close and the limits are much higher. Anyone got an explanation for this?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, live play attracts gamblers who want to look like Maverick more than computer poker.

The same phenomenon exists for every game I've ever played (live $5/10 holdem is MUCH looser than online, etc.).

Re: How often should you muck A2 pre flop?
 

Live is very good, even at the middle limits. At a local cardroom in Laughlin, the flop is usually seen by 100% of my opponents (I am the lone hold-out).

At Rio during the series, I would estimate that only one person ever folded before the flop. I played 10/20 and 20/40 with a half kill.

As far as online, yes, the microlimits seem to have the highest percentage seeing the flop. UB and Paradise always have high numbers.

I think part of the phenomenon of more players seeing the flop is due to speed. Live play is so slow, that no one wants to fold a hand. The same can be said of Paradise, where the average hands per hour is only about 20-30, whereas fast software like UB cranks out about 60 HPH.

Felicia [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: How often should you muck A2 pre flop?
 

Last night I had a naked A2. My hand was something like: A28Tr and it was capped before getting to me. I was 100% convinced I was up against at least another A2 and several players with good high draws.

Turned out being an excellent fold, as the turn brought a 2 and some clown with A3 took the low, another player showed down an A2 hand, and someone else made a flush for high.

Re: How often should you muck A2 pre flop?
 

I can't think of any scenario that I would lay down A 2 in a limit game.

Dave

Re: How often should you muck A2 pre flop?
 

A lot of the bigger games have table VP$IP of about 35% and the very tightest players with VP$IP of 20% or less. If a very tight player limps early and is raised by another tight player late (with others folding) you should fold playing behind the raiser with a naked A2 (ex: A-2-9-9 not suited to the ace).This isn't the way to make money.

Too often you will end up against at least one opponent with a better A2 and another opponent willing to press a quality hand of some sort in addition to a blind. This means you are usually playing for 1/4 of the pot or less.

Some will say position makes up a lot of ground, but I don't think it makes up anyway near as much as some people think, especially in limit Omaha/8.

~ Rick

Re: How often should you muck A2 pre flop?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It seemed like the Wynn's 6/12 was looser than party 1/2...LOL.

[/ QUOTE ]

I noticed this as well, the live limit high low games are so much looser than the online ones, its not even close and the limits are much higher. Anyone got an explanation for this?

[/ QUOTE ]

Old people don't know how to use computers.

Re: How often should you muck A2 pre flop?
 

KC - The only time I'd seriously consider mucking A2XY in a live limit-Omaha-8 game would be in certain tournament situations with a poor A2XY. (A poor A2XY would be a rainbow with two middle cards). For example, on the bubble or at the final table, and having at least several players due to post before me with the strong possibility of other individuals being knocked out before it was my turn to post, and after one solid, predictable player had already raised the blind, and holding A278-rainbow, I'd probably fold and hope one of my opponents got eliminated by the other.

But I don't think I'd ever fold A2XY, even a poor one, in a limit ring game.

Buzz

Re: How often should you muck A2 pre flop?
 

Been playing all 5/10 limit on Party & I will never muck an A2 at this limit.

Re: How often should you muck A2 pre flop?
 

Re:Live games being looser. This is also because you can't simultaneously play multiple games when playing live. It's a lot easier to be patient & wait for a decent starting hand when playing 3 or 4 games at once.