Short Stack against H@LLINGOL and BBuddy
 

Stars 10/20 NL

I bought in short-stacked and have doubled up once when my rivered trips got all in against flopped top and bottom pair. Other than that I have only played about 4 or 5 hands out of about 50. H@LL is on my left and seems to be playing solid and not too laggy. BBuddy is playing lots of pots.

BBuddy in EP (~$9000)
Hero in MP (~$750)
H@LLINGOL in CO (~$6000)

Hero is dealt A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
<font color="red"> </font> Bbuddy raises to $80 in EP, <font color="black"> </font> folds to Hero, Hero calls $80, H@LLINGOL calls $80, Button folds, blinds fold

I wanted to get max value on my hand. I don't think that calling here needs to be debated.

FLOP ($270): J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

BBuddy checks, Hero checks, H@LLINGOL checks

Bet here? how much?

TURN ($270): 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

BBuddy checks, <font color="red"> </font> Hero bets $140, <font color="black"> </font> H@LLINGOL calls $140, BBuddy folds.

RIVER ($550: 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

<font color="red"> </font> Hero?...

Is pushing the only real option here? I have about 500 left behind. All thoughts welcome.

Re: Short Stack against H@LLINGOL and BBuddy
 

Bet the flop and getting your stack in works out a lot easier. I see no way you're getting called on the river as everybody knows you're some tighty shortstack so maybe check and let hallingol push you around.
As it is, I can't believe that you started off the hand with 37.5 BB and didn't find an easy way to get your stack in the middle w/AA facing a preflop raise.

Re: Short Stack against H@LLINGOL and BBuddy
 

My rationale for not betting the flop after BBuddy checked was that I probably wasn't getting a call from either player without a J unless BBuddy was getting cute. I can't really think of a single card that I hate on the turn if I'm not already behind.

Re: Short Stack against H@LLINGOL and BBuddy
 

I would posit that one way to avoid scare flops killing your action when you have AA is to get more money in preflop.

Re: Short Stack against H@LLINGOL and BBuddy
 

So why did you buy in short, sandwiched in between these two? I'd like to hear your motives here.

Re: Short Stack against H@LLINGOL and BBuddy
 

[ QUOTE ]
I wanted to get max value on my hand. I don't think that calling here needs to be debated.

[/ QUOTE ]

Calling was wrong. If you make it $300 to go preflop and you get action from H@ll you will probably get action from B Buddy too. B Buddy was in super hyper agressive mode so I like giving him a chance to push all in pre flop against a short stack and taking a gamble (which he was doing all night; as long as he could push and rebuy trick he was willing to gamble with shorter stacks).

If I got to the river the way you did I would check to H@ll everytime...you still would have lost your money though as flopped quads are nice.

Re: Short Stack against H@LLINGOL and BBuddy
 

"if you can't spot the sucker in your first half hour at the table then you are the sucker."

-reraising preflop.
-bet the flop
-don't know why you made that werid bet on the turn

Re: Short Stack against H@LLINGOL and BBuddy
 

true, especially with his short stack.

Re: Short Stack against H@LLINGOL and BBuddy
 

From my experience, you never want to smooth call aces preflop against H@LL or BBuddy. I don't your preflop play here. Jam river.

Re: Short Stack against H@LLINGOL and BBuddy
 

Reraise preflop...buddy usually in his moods lately calls anyway. I dont really get why ud buy in for 400 against these 2 players in particular. They are always so deep and ur only move i feel is reraising premium hands preflop.

Re: Short Stack against H@LLINGOL and BBuddy
 

oops reread ur post..."I don't think that calling here needs to be debated."
Does everyone else agree with this?....i play this game a little and ive noticed bbuddy has a tendency to call reraises very frequently esp against shortstacks. so i guess the ? is do u want to get more $ in ahead or after they flop the nuts with their 46 offsuit?

Re: Short Stack against H@LLINGOL and BBuddy
 

[ QUOTE ]
oops reread ur post..."I don't think that calling here needs to be debated."
Does everyone else agree with this?

[/ QUOTE ]

I generally don't even bother replying to posts that contain a line like that, anymore. In nearly 100% of cases, what the poster is really saying is, "I know this is the mistake that led to all my subsequent mistakes in the hand, caused the hand to be harder to play and possibly cost me my stack but I don't want to talk about it."

SpaceAce

Re: Short Stack against H@LLINGOL and BBuddy
 

Brilliant! In any case, 240 preflop, push flop. Or check behind flop, get all in on turn if you think he may bluff turn if you check flop. Not re-raising preflop is criminal with a raise and a call in front of you.

Re: Short Stack against H@LLINGOL and BBuddy
 

[ QUOTE ]
Not re-raising preflop is criminal with a raise and a call in front of you.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Bbuddy raises to $80 in EP, folds to Hero, Hero calls $80, H@LLINGOL calls $80, Button folds, blinds fold

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Short Stack against H@LLINGOL and BBuddy
 

I don't get how they accepted your presence. They should've just sat out.

EDIT: Well, maybe because you didn't apply sound short stack strategy, like this hand shows.

Re: Short Stack against H@LLINGOL and BBuddy
 

Terrible... Reraise pre.

Re: Short Stack against H@LLINGOL and BBuddy
 

From start to finish, you played this hand in a way that completely negates any strategic advantage associated with annoying short stack play. I don't understand this at all.

You played this hand like an aquatic animal, but not a duck.

Re: Short Stack against H@LLINGOL and BBuddy
 

yeah, i can't read. but my point is still correct. just negate the 'and a call' part.

Re: Short Stack against H@LLINGOL and BBuddy
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
oops reread ur post..."I don't think that calling here needs to be debated."
Does everyone else agree with this?

[/ QUOTE ]

I generally don't even bother replying to posts that contain a line like that, anymore. In nearly 100% of cases, what the poster is really saying is, "I know this is the mistake that led to all my subsequent mistakes in the hand, caused the hand to be harder to play and possibly cost me my stack but I don't want to talk about it."

SpaceAce

[/ QUOTE ]

"I wanted to get max value on my hand. I don't think that calling here needs to be debated."

I don't think that line implies that he thinks he made a mistake preflop.

Re: Short Stack against H@LLINGOL and BBuddy
 

[ QUOTE ]

"I wanted to get max value on my hand. I don't think that calling here needs to be debated."

I don't think that line implies that he thinks he made a mistake preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, it does or he wouldn't have mentioned it at all. Have you ever seen a post that said, "I had the stone cold nuts on the river and I was last to act so I bet to get maximum value out of my hand"?

SpaceAce

Re: Short Stack against H@LLINGOL and BBuddy
 

[ QUOTE ]
From start to finish, you played this hand in a way that completely negates any strategic advantage associated with annoying short stack play. I don't understand this at all.

You played this hand like an aquatic animal, but not a shark.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Short Stack against H@LLINGOL and BBuddy
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
From start to finish, you played this hand in a way that completely negates any strategic advantage associated with annoying short stack play. I don't understand this at all.

You played this hand like an aquatic animal, but not a shark.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]
[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] ns

Re: Short Stack against H@LLINGOL and BBuddy
 

I tottaly disagree with the way you played this hand. Insta reraise preflop for me, insta bet the flop for me etc. But hey, I'm just a small stakes grinder

Re: Short Stack against H@LLINGOL and BBuddy
 

I really didn't have any "motives" here. I was sick of studying for finals so I decided to play a little short stack.

I'd like to point out the fact that I pretty much never do this and am admittedly a fish when it comes to short stack playing. I generally buy-in full at 2/4 or 3/6 on stars and was feeling frisky. This was probably not the best line up to learn short stack strategy against, especially as I am not as well versed in their play as everyone else seems to be.

Lets assume I made it $300 PF and both Hallingol and BBuddy call. Just push any flop?

Re: Short Stack against H@LLINGOL and BBuddy
 

Thanks for the candid advice, Mike.

Re: Short Stack against H@LLINGOL and BBuddy
 

[ QUOTE ]

Lets assume I made it $300 PF and both Hallingol and BBuddy call. Just push any flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

yes

Re: Short Stack against H@LLINGOL and BBuddy
 

How do you know my name?

Well, I wasn't trying to be mean, just my way of saying have better table selection.

Re: Short Stack against H@LLINGOL and BBuddy
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Lets assume I made it $300 PF and both Hallingol and BBuddy call. Just push any flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

yes

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Short Stack against H@LLINGOL and BBuddy
 

If you wanted "max value" out of the hand then the play was to reload to full stack.

Re: Short Stack against H@LLINGOL and BBuddy
 

i havent read all the responses, but i think just smoothcalling is a mistake. bbuddy will gamble with you preflop trying to bust you and he's not (at least when he is at least semi-sane) just some moron postflop that will double you up for no reson.

reraise preflop and stick it in on the flop.