I Still Can\'t Do It : 77 UTG
 

I still can't do it. I still can't play perfect poker. And I don't mean that I still make mistakes, 'cause I know I'll always do that and I'm okay with that. The idea is to take the time, do the math work, and try to spot the mistakes so I can put an end to them, so I can become the player I want to be. No, that's not what I mean at all. It's doing things like this, where I know exactly what the right play is, but do something different anyway like a complete dumbass. That's what the fish can't stop doing. That's what the typical tight-playing mid-stakes playeres can't stop doing. But not me, for I can rise above all that [censored]. Can't I?

A great 80 game yesterday at Bay 101. There're two walkers right now and we're 8-handed and I'm playing well. No, I'm playing VERY well. My head is clear, I'm making great decisions. At least until this hand.

I'm dealt 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] UTG and raise. I've been doing a lot of opening in the past few hours and some of the players are starting to notice. I'm not getting isolated weakly or liberally, but I'm getting calls from the blinds HU with some really weak holdings.

Anyway, UTG+1 is one of the three spots at the table who is too tight PF, but good and thinks well postflop. He hesitates and cold-calls, which a first for the session. Immediate thoughts were 44-88, AJs, KQs, maybe AA/KK/99. Could be slightly wider, but not by much if any. Next to act is a floorperson who's way too loose PF but not overly aggro, too loose and aggressive on the flop, and typical loose fish on the turn and river. He 3-bets in rhythm and it's folded to a fishy fish Button who calls. SB folds, loose'ish BB calls, I call, UTG+1 calls. There goes AA/KK.

5 to the flop for 15 SB's.

Flop comes: 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Checked to the floorperson who bets, Button does what he does and calls, BB folds. I call, UTG+1 check-raises. NH sir. Now the floorperson just calls, Button calls, I call. 4 to the turn for 11.75 BB's.

Turn comes: 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

I check, UTG+1 bets, floor calls, Button calls. Now as soon as I checked my brain started doing the usual turn math calcs, and by the time it was bet and called back to me I knew what my action should be. So I go to slide to the chip off my cards and flick them toward the dealer, but my body doesn't do it. Instead, I find myself rethinking the math and trying to find a way where I can be justified in calling here.

I think about my implied odds and try to tell myself that they greatly outweigh my reverse implied odds. I try to tell myself that I don't want these chips going into a too-tight player's stack, and certainly not one on my immediate left. I try recalcing the math and trying to weight things so that I can tell myself a call is good here, that I can make money with a call. I try, but I'm not fooling anybody. I know this is a losing call. And I as I tell myself that, my hand reaches out and cuts off two stacks of four.

I thought about this hand a lot last night. I've thought about it a lot this morning. I [censored] hate myself for being so [censored] weak-minded and not being able to take the action that I know is best, just because I can't get over the bullshit mantras about big pots and strong draws, or big pots and top pairs, or whatever. I know I know how to play this game, and I know I could be a good player -IF- I would only let myself get beyond all the bullshit. I'm hoping this post will help me in that regard. Thanks for listening.

GoT

Re: I Still Can\'t Do It : 77 UTG
 

Nice post. I definitely can relate to what you are saying as I (and I am sure many others) have this same problem. Now I am nowhere as good as you Guy, but I definitely have the knowledge to be beating the games in which I play for more (and higher ones I suspect) if I could just play perfect --i.e., not make emotionally based decisions (and I am not talking full on TILT! here) that deviate from what I know mathematically and logically the correct decision, in fact, is. While I have tons of room to improve in my thinking and understanding of the game, if I could just play mistake free in the sense thatyou described, my results would be so much better.

Thanks for sharing.

Re: I Still Can\'t Do It : 77 UTG
 

I know I have this problem in the 30 a lot with paying off.

I'm pretty sure UTG+1 is full, but do the other guys have to have higher pairs? if not you may have the 2 5's left as outs, at least half the time...so the call would be borderline correct.

Re: I Still Can\'t Do It : 77 UTG
 

man that was a good read. very captivating. by the time you got to the UTG+1 c'r on the flop i was like i wonder what he couldn't do,

then utg+1 bet the turn and i started hoping you folded and the post was a joke, i really got into it. almost talked to the monitor lol,

nah, GoT, nobody is perfect and yo uknow that. what you did here i think has been refered to as "thinking man's tilt," and this post probably hellps you get over it.

on the turn its about 15:1 on your call, you went through it and were sooooo close to being able to call, 20.75 implied in best case possible still isn't enough. 95% chance or higher your 8 out of 10 outs are no good. 15:1...god thats so close but you know so its cool.

anyways, i know that wasn't your point and i know you went over that b/c you stated your thoughts and you said you knew you should fold but called.

thinking mans tilt, and typing out this post is likely a good cure.

-Barron

Re: I Still Can\'t Do It : 77 UTG
 

[ QUOTE ]
I know I have this problem in the 30 a lot with paying off.

I'm pretty sure UTG+1 is full, but do the other guys have to have higher pairs? if not you may have the 2 5's left as outs, at least half the time...so the call would be borderline correct.

[/ QUOTE ]

i forgot about the 5s, thats even closer... 2/46 nets you 22:1 necessary for the call. if you have all 4 of those outs its 10.5:1. if you have 3 of them its 14.33.

there's 1 way for 55, 3 ways for 66 and 3 ways for 44. so 1 out of 7 times you are drawing dead. those times you're against 44 you have 4 outs. 66 you have 2 outs. 3*2+3*4+1*0=18/7=2.57 outs. you are now needing 16.88:1 to call ... but that also makes your river decision tough. if you ALWAYS just check and call, he may not bet the 45556 bard. so you lose value when you hit a 5. if you c'r when you hit a 7, 1/7 times you lose that plus ANOTHER bet when he 3bets you w/ 55 90% and 66 10%. so reverse implied odds here suck.

no matter how you cut it, GoT had to fold on the turn. he didn't and suffered from thinking man's tilt.

-Barron

Re: I Still Can\'t Do It : 77 UTG
 

worry not. i think it's a small mistake. it cost u little. move on to next hand. keep winning.

next time fold 77 UTG, and be peaceful.

- Kenny

Re: I Still Can\'t Do It : 77 UTG
 

Your call on the turn isn't a losing play. Playing a small pair up front in an 80-160 game is.

I stopped by briefly last night and I did see it was possibly the best game I'd seen in a long time. Couldn't get into it, though. If there was a game where playing 77 up front is OK, it's this one, but position is so much more fun, and there are more than enough people in that game (even last night) who can make your life more than uncomfortable with isolation.

Re: I Still Can\'t Do It : 77 UTG
 

[ QUOTE ]
worry not. i think it's a small mistake. it cost u little.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've worked hard to make sure I don't think like this.

GoT

Re: I Still Can\'t Do It : 77 UTG
 

[ QUOTE ]
Your call on the turn isn't a losing play.

[/ QUOTE ]

I did the math in my head several times yesterday and walked thru all the numbers just this morning with someone else. I'm fairly confident I can't make money on the turn here.

[ QUOTE ]
Playing a small pair up front in an 80-160 game is.

[/ QUOTE ]

You'll have a hard time convincing me that me opening with 77 from 5 off the Button is a losing play in games like this. Filtered for: Not a Blind, 88-66, 4-6 off the button, Raised first in, I get +0.51 BB/hand, which is a very significant profit. I definitely pick my spots, as 88 accounts for 68% of those; 77, 27%; and 66, 4%. The game I was in was very much like the current 30's online, except with one tight'ish player replaced with a tighter player per table. That or any other slight difference is not going to make up for what was a significantly profitable preflop situation.

GoT

Re: I Still Can\'t Do It : 77 UTG
 

I've played in that game for a year and I can tell you that it's a loser. It's a winner for you yesterday, since they were all clowns (not the normal lineup), and you're from out of town.