Too aggressive with my underpair or SOP?
 

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed)

Same loose, fishy game as in my "AK unimproved post," and the Button is the same player to whom I folded that pot on the river.

Preflop: chesspain is MP3 with 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="666666">2 folds</font>, UTG+2 calls, <font color="666666">2 folds</font>, chesspain calls, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="CC3333">Button raises</font>, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls, UTG+2 calls, chesspain calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG+2 checks, <font color="CC3333">chesspain bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Button raises</font>, BB folds, UTG+2 folds, chesspain calls.

Turn: (6.25 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
chesspain checks, <font color="CC3333">Button bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">chesspain raises</font>, Button calls.

River: (10.25 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">chesspain bets</font>, Button folds.

Final Pot: 11.25 BB
<font color="green">Main Pot: 10.25 BB, won by chesspain.</font>
<font color="green">Pot 2: 1 BB, returned to chesspain.</font>

1. How was my play on this hand?
2. Assuming my read was correct in that he had unimproved overcards, should I have bet the river or checked in order to play bluff catcher?

Re: Too aggressive with my underpair or SOP?
 

In this case I'm not sure the button would bluff the river anyways sice it brought a possible completed flush and straight, but I think I would have tried for the bluff call myself. Your read seems sound (I'd guess an AKo myself but not sure) since its unlikely he has you beat or he would have likely reraised the turn. The only thing I'd worry about is a bad jack (a suited JT or some such) but that;s unlikely.

Overall well played, though I'd leaned towards trying to induce a bluff.

Thats my two cents,
TRWIII

Re: Too aggressive with my underpair or SOP?
 

It seems unlikely that he'll fold a jack, and it seems unlikely he'll call with just overcards.

I think you should check the river and hope to induce a bluff.

It's also possible that he holds a jack, won't fold it, but would be scared to bet it, too. Checking saves you a bet in that case.

There's also a small chance that he's made his flush on the river. I know his play isn't totally consistent with a flush draw given that he didn't take the free card on the turn, but he could have recalled that other hand you posted (where he played postflop similarly).

So check-calling has the added benefit of saving a bet when he does have the hearts.

At least, that's my take on it.

-McGee

Re: Too aggressive with my underpair or SOP?
 

I think I like everything except the bet on the end. I don't think overcards call here, you're risking a raise that you'll at least _want_ to call getting 13:1, and I only see nines or tens folding here which seem a bit unlikely given the previous play. I think it's close though, since I don't see a lot of bluff betting with overcards given the action on previous streets, especially the turn checkraise, and I can't think of many other hands that you beat.

Did you consider three-betting the flop and open betting the turn? It seems to me that for an extra half bet you gain the chance of folding a lame J, and if it's capped you can probably get away from your eights. In your scenario if paint comes on the turn are you check folding, even though it's pretty much a guaranteed bet from your opponent?

-Tim

Re: Too aggressive with my underpair or SOP?
 

your bet, call, instead of bet raise on the turn makes you look like an average player on a flushdraw. Button may not have had anything, but it's also very possible he had a pair of jacks, and folded on the end because any 4 or any two [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]'s could beat him. I've always believed that it's much more dangerous to bluff, or semi-bluff into a board with either a J or T on it because there are so many different playable hands that include those two cards. Button's raise PF doesn't mean that he necissarily only has unimproved overs. he's last position and so he could easily hold hands such as, AJ, KJ, QJ, or JT all giving him top pair. I don't think you're necisarily ahead, and, so you may have been throwing away bets until the scare card hit on the river.

Re: Too aggressive with my underpair or SOP?
 

He checkraised the turn, which after calling the raised flop doesn't read like a flush draw to me.

-Tim

Re: Too aggressive with my underpair or SOP?
 

Chesspain:

I have begun raising 88 preflop in this spot, unless the players to my right are just as likely to call 2 as 1. I know that you described the table as loose, so if that means loose cold calling raises, then I limp as well.

--Rico

Re: Too aggressive with my underpair or SOP?
 

sorry i missread the post... his play looks pretty good...

Re: Too aggressive with my underpair or SOP?
 

I like the turn play a lot. It prevents him from taking shots at you with overcards in the future. I like the river bet too--AK/AQ will call plenty here and you might fold TT/99.

Re: Too aggressive with my underpair or SOP?
 

I'm not sure about your post-flop play, but I'd like to know why you didn't raise pre-flop?