Re: A Refutation of Determinism
 

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Therefore, you should do your best not to believe in (or at least not to act in accord with) determinism, as this decision seems to leave you with the highest possible EV.

[/ QUOTE ] Whether or not you believe in it doesn't affect your EV, but, as you correctly point out, whether or not you act in accord with it does.

Good post.

Re: A Refutation of Determinism
 

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The argument concerning LaPlace's Demon in this thread does a better job of refuting determinism

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I don't think this refutes determinism. Laplace was one of the first ardent determinists. Your statement
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I'm sure I could abstain from eating that bowl of ice cream.

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amounts essentially to saying "Determinism is false."

Re: A Refutation of Determinism
 

I suggest you read the book
Elbow Room , it may settle your worries.

D.

Re: A Refutation of Determinism
 

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In conclusion, it is the nut best belief to trust in free will, whether or not it actually exists. Make sense?


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The real issue seems to be how can we escape determinism on a non-theistic basis. The only option is pure randomness which doesn't appear any more attractive than pure determinism. The core difficulty is that it's impossible for a non-theistic metaphysic to provide rational justification to the idea that human life has any significance whatsover.

Re: A Refutation of Determinism
 

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The core difficulty is that it's impossible for a non-theistic metaphysic to provide rational justification to the idea that human life has any significance whatsover.

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Rational Justification:

P1) Humans determine significance
P2) I am a human
P3) My life is signficant to me
C) Human life is significant

Re: A Refutation of Determinism
 

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A) All actions are fully predetermined by the laws of physics, etc., and an omniscient being with full information could give you the complete state of the universe at any point in space-time; thus, free will does not exist

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That doesn't follow at all. "Free will" means doing what you want. It doesn't mean acting randomly. Free will and determinism are compatible.

Re: A Refutation of Determinism
 

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I suggest you read the book
Elbow Room , it may settle your worries.

D.

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Great book. So is Consciousness Explained by the same author.

Re: A Refutation of Determinism
 

I hope I don't sound smug or anything. But determinism and free-will, indeterminism, fate or what have you are entirely irrelevant to justice and morality. I mean, come on. What if I didn't know I had free will? Would I be responsible then? Or what if I was wrong about having free will, would I no longer be resonsible? Plenty of people have played Nintendo and not known the source code, and knowing it would't have affected their play in the least.

Your argument really goes like this
"Responsibility must exist because I feel responsible"
"If I didn't have control over all of my actions then I wouldn't be responsible"
"Therefore I have control over all my actions"
It's a reductio ad absudum that proves it's own premise.

Re: A Refutation of Determinism
 

You are born into life, and immediately breathe "air". So much for "free will": how is it that we are related in "free will" to our earthly state?

The difficulty is that in static thought it looks at "freedom" and "free will" as a present end state without mobility.

Another approach could be; does mankind display evidence of a "freer(?) will" in an evolutionary sense? Is this "freedom of will" the evolutionary work of man?

Man walks the earth and in the determinist sense he is "not free". I believe it was Spinosa who likened Man to a thrown rock who thinks he is free.

So what is this "free will" we talk about?

carlo

Re: A Refutation of Determinism
 

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C) Human life is significant


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What's significant about a cosmic accident that no one remembers when it's disappeared?