allen C. rereraise on river with three AAA, can\'t be good
 

PLO final table. helmuth bets on river with flush, robert w. raises with his top full house, Allen C. reraises with lone A (board was A 6 6 A K).

what was he thinking???

Re: allen C. rereraise on river with three AAA, can\'t be good
 

Go search for this in the PLO forum for your answer, they had a lot of fun with this hand after the show aired.

Re: allen C. rereraise on river with three AAA, can\'t be good
 

can't find it..

Re: allen C. rereraise on river with three AAA, can\'t be good
 

here ya go

Re: allen C. rereraise on river with three AAA, can\'t be good
 

I actually wanted to comment on this episode but I thought no one would care about it anymore.

I wasn't impressed with Cunningham's play at all during this final table. I definitely think he's an amazing player and probably better than most in Omaha, but compared to a lot of the other players I don't think his skills in Omaha are CLOSE to professional. His raise on this board was just bad unless he misread his hand, his calling down Hellmuth with a double gutshot hand when the flush came in was also quite bad, and some of his other plays were marginal if nothing else.

Re: allen C. rereraise on river with three AAA, can\'t be good
 

Robert could very well have been raising with AQ or less, since there was no action before the river.

Re: allen C. rereraise on river with three AAA, can\'t be good
 

I'm sure allen would say thats a donk play too as I don't think his raise is enough to make a flush fold if per se you take out Robert W.

Re: allen C. rereraise on river with three AAA, can\'t be good
 

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Robert could very well have been raising with AQ or less, since there was no action before the river.

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Do you play Omaha?

Re: allen C. rereraise on river with three AAA, can\'t be good
 

Yeah there is no way Williamson raises with just 3 aces in that spot, in fact he probably folds there with a player still to act and the first pos. man betting out. I was thinking though - what if Williamson just calls behind Hellmuth - does Allen then raise the trips as a semi-bluff or a sort of squeeze, assuming he only needs to get Hellmuth to fold? (Of course this would never happen as RW3 never flatcalls with A's full.)

Re: allen C. rereraise on river with three AAA, can\'t be good
 

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Robert could very well have been raising with AQ or less, since there was no action before the river.

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Do you play Omaha?

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My bad.

Re: allen C. rereraise on river with three AAA, can\'t be good
 

Not many hands fit the board. After the turn, only A6 makes a full house, and it (along with AA and 66) would usually be bet by this point. After the river, add AK, KK and K6 to the full house list. A raise potentially knocks out a flush, and maybe even a gets a sheriff call from a weaker A (don't remember AC's 2nd card to play) and even a 6 in some circumstances.

If RW is making a move (which he is capable of doing from ANY position), his raise potentially knocks out the best hand (PH) and induces a crying call from the bluffer (RW). And that is certainly a plausible situation. He probably doesn't put RW on a flush, as a flush would likely not do more than call after the river.

It's just one of those moves in which you're a genius if it works, and a donkey if it doesn't. If only these guys could see the hole-cam images...

Re: allen C. rereraise on river with three AAA, can\'t be good
 

It was a bluff attempt, trying to mover players off a flush I assume. It's a very weird and a very bad play. Worst play of the series by a known player.

Re: allen C. rereraise on river with three AAA, can\'t be good
 

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here ya go

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thanks

Re: allen C. rereraise on river with three AAA, can\'t be good
 

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Not many hands fit the board. After the turn, only A6 makes a full house, and it (along with AA and 66) would usually be bet by this point. After the river, add AK, KK and K6 to the full house list. A raise potentially knocks out a flush, and maybe even a gets a sheriff call from a weaker A (don't remember AC's 2nd card to play) and even a 6 in some circumstances.


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WTF? As someone else asked in this thread, DO YOU PLAY OMAHA?! Didn't like 4-6 people see this flop? You say "Only" hands like AKxx, KKxx, K6xx are the type of hands you're worried about but in a limped multiway pot like this you should be EXTREMELY worried about them. Is there ANY chance RW is raising here, against this many opponents without aces full? I say there's approximately zero no of it. And no, you never get a sherrifs call from a worse Ace, a 6 or a flush in this spot. Ever. It's simply a very bad play with huge negative expectation.

Now if it went bet, call then a move might have some merit in this spot. Would still be a high risk move that would need a very solid read on the situation. But when it goes bet, raise in this spot against these two you turbo muck AQxx.

Re: allen C. rereraise on river with three AAA, can\'t be good
 

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here ya go

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thanks

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this is just a link to *another* thread in WPT where they talk about talking about it in the PLO forum. i don't see how this is helpful.

Re: allen C. rereraise on river with three AAA, can\'t be good
 

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allen C. rereraise on river with three AAA, can't be good

[/ QUOTE ]Where I come from that's nine A's. Sounds damn near unbeatable.


AT

Re: allen C. rereraise on river with three AAA, can\'t be good
 

Cunningham clearly didn't want a call he was trying to get the flush out and probably thought williamson was doing the same thing or had a weaker boat and was trying to get hellmuth to pay the flush off to him. Do you call that with K6 or a flush? Cunningham didn't think he had a 6 and he had an ace. Only hand he could have then to make that play is AK or maybe KK. I'd have to think williamson is capable of making that raise without those exact cards.

It's not as bad as it looked. Calling with that hand like a I'm sure a lot of you would was 100x worse of a play.

Re: allen C. rereraise on river with three AAA, can\'t be good
 

[ QUOTE ]
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here ya go

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thanks

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this is just a link to *another* thread in WPT where they talk about talking about it in the PLO forum.

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True dat. There was a thread about this hand in the PLO forum when that episode first aired. However, the search feature and archives for the PLO forum are often broken for some reason.

Re: allen C. rereraise on river with three AAA, can\'t be good
 

I don't think he played well at all in the PLO event. In fact, based by TV I don't think he even understands the game well.
Hand 42 - Ivey has the button in seat 6, Williamson limps for $8,000, Cunningham limps, Ivey limps, Hellmuth limps, and Scharf checks. The flop comes Ad-6c-6s, and everyone checks. The turn card is the Kc, and they check again. The river card is the Ac, Hellmuth bets $9,000, Williamson raises to $44,000, Cunningham reraises to $84,000, and Williamson calls. Williamson shows A-K (aces full of kings), and Cunningham mucks. Williamson takes the pot.
Anyone remember this hand? Or this?
There is a dead button in seat 10, Sunar raises to $27,000, Cunningham reraises to put Sunar all in, and Sunar calls. Cunningham has Kc-8c-7h-2h, and Sunar has Ah-Ks-10s-5h. The flop comes Jd-10d-9d, but neither player has a single diamond. Cunningham flopped a jack-high straight, and Sunar will need to catch a queen or something runner-runner to stay alive. The turn card is the 7s, the river card is the Kd, and Surinder Sunar is eliminated in fifth place, earning $122,635.
(Credit to Cardplayer)
I forget what he had on the first one, but I believe all he had was a set. He didn't look good playing PLO, that's for sure.

Re: allen C. rereraise on river with three AAA, can\'t be good
 

I don't think the "Have you PLAYED Omaha?!?!" crowd can properly distinguish between your standard Omaha Hi PL cash game and final table huge-blind Omaha. It's really somewhat of a hybrid of the Omaha and Hold'em cash games. You don't just play the nuts at final tables. Unless the deck is hitting you upside the head, you're a dead duck in big blind PL Omaha hi unless you loosen up and make some moves.