should I have milked it to the turn?
 

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (9 handed)

UTG :#A500AF(reloadthis)/ ($11.55)
UTG+1 :#A500AF(broksi)/ ($15.35)
MP1 :#A500AF(randolphlivingston)/ ($7.70)
purpleheadedwarrior ($10)
MP3 :#A500AF(doublesuited)/ ($13.45)
CO :#A500AF(ToddBenning)/ ($9.15)
Button :#A500AF(WillieWonka)/ ($3.75)
SB :#A500AF(t soprano )/ ($9.20)
BB :#A500AF(extempore)/ ($5.20)

Preflop: purpleheadedwarrior is MP2 with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. purpleheadedwarrior posts a blind of $0.10.
UTG :#A500AF(reloadthis)/ calls $0.10, UTG+1 :#A500AF(broksi)/ calls $0.10, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">purpleheadedwarrior (poster) raises to $0.7</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO :#A500AF(ToddBenning)/ calls $0.70, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB :#A500AF(t soprano )/ calls $0.65, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG :#A500AF(reloadthis)/ folds, UTG+1 :#A500AF(broksi)/ folds.

Flop: ($2.40) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">t soprano bets $0.5</font>, <font color="#CC3333">purpleheadedwarrior raises to $9.3</font>, ToddBenning folds, t soprano folds.

Final Pot: $12.20


This soprano guy seemed like he really wanted to call. Should I have tried getting more out of this and then pushing on the turn?

Re: should I have milked it to the turn?
 

Your question is easily answered with other questions.
- What does the FTOP (Fundamental Theorem of Poker) say?
- What did you do with respect to the FTOP?
- What did your opponent do with respect to the FTOP?
- Who really gained by having the hand played out as it was?

Re: should I have milked it to the turn?
 

I think you should have reraised him to like 1.90 or so then bet it out on the turn. A/S/L?

Re: should I have milked it to the turn?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Your question is easily answered with other questions.
- What does the FTOP (Fundamental Theorem of Poker) say?
- What did you do with respect to the FTOP?
- What did your opponent do with respect to the FTOP?
- Who really gained by having the hand played out as it was?

[/ QUOTE ]

Excellent reply. If he hasn't scurried off to a bookstore already I hope he does immediately so he can check out ToP and understand WTF you're saying HAHA

But seriously, excellent reply. You provided him with zero insight of your own and just spewed out something you skimmed over in a 2+2 book.

Re: should I have milked it to the turn?
 

Such a big push makes it really hard for a hand that you beat to call you, and is not likely to make a hand better than yours fold. Upside of the push is close to 0, downside is losing your stack. You should raise the flop a lot smaller (I would go 3/4 to pot size raise), and perhaps you'll be able to get smaller pocket pairs to chase.

Re: should I have milked it to the turn?
 

sexy

Re: should I have milked it to the turn?
 

Yeah, it really didn't make sense in retrospect, especially with that flop. I guess I should have just raised him some then if i was gonna push maybe do it on the turn depending on what comes.
I had been sucked out on a few hands before that. I guess was trying too hard to protect this (resulting in shitty pot)

Re: should I have milked it to the turn?
 

[ QUOTE ]
sexy

[/ QUOTE ]

Please go join EHarmony and stop hitting on the posters here...!

Seriously, look at his post history!!!

-ZEN

Re: should I have milked it to the turn?
 

It depends on how well you know these players. If you have no reads, there is every chance that one of your callers has a-x, which might include a deuce or a three. In this case, your best raise is enough to make a call incorrect - they might hit their hand with one of three deuces, one of three threes, or one of three aces (which beats your kings). On the surface, you have 36 good cards and 9 bad ones, so you can lay the other players 3-1 on their pot odds. However, I personally also include 6-7 as a hand and also ace-five, which reduces your good cards. To make things simple, I make a raise that gives them about 1.5 on their money:

The pot is $2.90 to you - so you raise to $4.50 which gives the bettor 1.65 on his money. If the second player comes along, they have great odds. I still bet the $4.50 - but if this is a tournament, I go all in.

If you know these players (and they would not call your prefop raise with 6-7 or a-x) then you can raise less because you are putting them on A-face and they only catch-up on the turn when an ace spikes.

Dogmeat [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Re: should I have milked it to the turn?
 

[ QUOTE ]
But seriously, excellent reply. You provided him with zero insight of your own and just spewed out something you skimmed over in a 2+2 book.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, last month I wore through the binding of my third copy of that book dating back to the original first published under a different title. So I think I've done a bit more than skim through it.

Further, I wasn't trying to be cutesie or smart a*s in my reply. Sometimes the best way to learn is to respond to questions with questions to assist the person in learning for themselves. It is a good way to learn from others and a good way to learn on one's own.

Sure it would have been very easy for me to say that he way overplayed the hand, essentially telling his opponent he had a strong hand and that the prudent thing to do would be to fold.

In other words, the player w/KK actually lost money through his play because he played in such a manner so as to not cause his opponent to make a mistake and go further with a lesser hand, therey failing to optimize the return on such a strong holding.

Also, his opponent played exactly as he should have played if he were able to see the players cards. Hence the opponent gained and the player lost, even though the player took down the pot.

No great mystery there.