Poll: would you sit at an electronic table at a B&M room?
 

There's a company, PokerTek, marketing an electronic version of poker. Basically, rather than real cards and chips, you sit around a table and play on monitors, using virtual cards and chips. Casinos like the idea because they'll spend less on labor, and hands will go faster, so the rake will increase.

What about the players? On one hand, I'd like to see more hands in an hour. The software will make it so people can't bet out of turn or make other mistakes, the dealers won't make mistakes, and you don't have to tip the dealer. On the other, if I want to play virtually, I'll 4-table online at home. B&M is where you get to physically touch your cards and chips, and people don't need to worry that the cards are rigged.

Re: Poll: would you sit at an electronic table at a B&M room?
 

These machines were discussed before and I think the consensus was that PokerTek is developing these machines for locales where local law prohibits table games but allows for slot type machines.

I don't think this is gonna make poker dealers obsolete.

I think these things are a [censored] joke. It would be easier to play internet poker at home.

Re: Poll: would you sit at an electronic table at a B&M room?
 

I'd rather shoot myself than play at a table like this. I don't think that they will ever catch on - if people didn't like the live aspect of touching cards and chips, then you would see a lot more electronic blackjack and pai gow tables.

And of course there's there issue of cheating. With no dealer there, people are going to be lot more ballsy about open collusion - "hey frank, I got top pair and don't want to get sucked out on - raise this guy out for me, would ya?" What's the third player gonna do? Push the "call floor" button and hope they have a microphone in the table? It could turn into a real nightmare.

Re: Poll: would you sit at an electronic table at a B&M room?
 

Of course any card player would probably rather play at a table with a live dealer. These tables can still have their place, though. They can allow a casino to run a table at a lower limit than 2/4 or 1/2 NL. A casino right now can't run .25/.5 NL, but an electronic table might allow that. It might also allow a casino to charge less rake and make the same profit. However, it is likely that rake and limits will stay the same and some casinos will just use these tables to ruin the experience. But it doesn't have to be that way.

Re: Poll: would you sit at an electronic table at a B&M room?
 

flatline, a lot of the better places in Vegas (wynn, mgm, bellagio) charge less rake then some online places. for 4/8 and above it can be ~5% or less up to 4 dollars.

Re: Poll: would you sit at an electronic table at a B&M room?
 

I saw such a table at the Hard Rock in Hollywood, Fl., for low buy-in SnGs.

I didn't play, but I'd be happy to.

First of all the electronics assures no dealer mistakes, which is already a major advantage. No misdeals. No exposed cards. No dealing of the flop before I have raised my big blind. No failing to wait for a player to act before forcing the action on. No acceptance of under-raises. No erronious awardings of pot.

Secondly they assure more hands per hour than by far the most of the dealers are capable of.

And thirdly, NO TIPPING of the dealer!

I still get the table banter and the tells from the other players. There's no point in comparing with online poker - this is the live experience, and the fact that my card is shown on a screen and not on a piece of cardboard changes little.

Best,

McMelchior (Johan)

Re: Poll: would you sit at an electronic table at a B&M room?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I still get the table banter and the tells from the other players. There's no point in comparing with online poker - this is the live experience, and the fact that my card is shown on a screen and not on a piece of cardboard changes little.

McMelchior (Johan)

[/ QUOTE ]

It takes away enough tells that I wouldn't want to play (if I had an alternative). Of course not all players have betting tells, but some do...

Re: Poll: would you sit at an electronic table at a B&M room?
 

I played the electronic table at Hard Rock in Tampa. $30+$10 NLHE tournament (paid out $240 and $60). I won't do it again. It's like playing online - but you can breathe the smoke of the people you're playing with.

Re: Poll: would you sit at an electronic table at a B&M room?
 

Hot Springs, AR recently passed a referendum authorizing "electronic games of skill" in their horse track, which is widely understood to mean "video poker" (of the garden variety), but the wording of the referendum is vague and it's possible that these types of machines would be permitted.

If that's the only option, I would not turn my nose up at it. I'll still prefer real dealers, but I can make a 30 minute trip to Hot Springs a lot more frequently than I can make a 3-hour trip to Tunica.

Re: Poll: would you sit at an electronic table at a B&M room?
 

People play live to get away from the rigged internet, or in this case, a "live" electric game

Re: Poll: would you sit at an electronic table at a B&M room?
 

Not enough options, I didn't vote. Here's mine:

"Would you use these devices for SnG games if the casino would not spread SnG tournaments otherwise or had a reduced vig with this system?"

My vote would be a resounding YES to this question. I wouldn't use them otherwise.

Re: Poll: would you sit at an electronic table at a B&M room?
 

[ QUOTE ]

First of all the electronics assures no dealer mistakes, which is already a major advantage. No misdeals. No exposed cards. No dealing of the flop before I have raised my big blind. No failing to wait for a player to act before forcing the action on. No acceptance of under-raises. No erronious awardings of pot.

Secondly they assure more hands per hour than by far the most of the dealers are capable of.

And thirdly, NO TIPPING of the dealer!

the fact that my card is shown on a screen and not on a piece of cardboard changes little.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is #1 really a problem at most places?? Forgive my ignorance, I just turned 21 last week, and have only logged maybe 20 hours at B&M, but ive only seen 4 or 5 exposed hole cards, and only 2 of those were the dealer's fault. People underbetting and betting out of turn seldom happens where I play, maybe once an hour, and this is useful information anyway, so I prefer to keep it. I havent seen a pot awarded erroneously, and the floor has only been called once because a player got uppity that a dealer flipped his hole card.

2) This may be true, but most people enjoy the pace of B&M, you get to think a little about your decisions, its not just ram and jam machines going to work.

3) A dollar, even in a 3/6 pot isnt a big deal. My biggest gripe about B&M is the jackpot drop even with no flop, and the fact that like 25% of the pot gets dropped if its only 2 limpers to the flop.

Metagame I think it changes alot. People like holding cards and playing with chips, and most people who have frequented a casino are used to playing by the book when they play slots, blackjack/video poker machines, and I think subconsciously people would play less hands with the mentality that a machine pays out a certain amount as long as you play well.

If they made a machine where you flung bets and raises into a coin thing at each seat like a tollbooth, and then shot out the pot to the winner in a coin return tube under the table or something it would be alot more fun I think. Maybe a little swinging gate on the side of the table to peek at a little screen with your hole cards. In any case, if any part of the game was mechanized besides the shuffling, I would just stay at home and play online.

Re: Poll: would you sit at an electronic table at a B&M room?
 

Either choice still requires sitting near those people.

Re: Poll: would you sit at an electronic table at a B&M room?
 

Funny, but I think your poll results say it all.

For those who voted FOR the electronics, i.e. those who want live cardrooms to basically become online cardrooms, and the companies (especially their executives) trying to market this bullpucky, I have this to say ...

**** You.

al

Re: Poll: would you sit at an electronic table at a B&M room?
 

if i wanted to play electronically i'd play at home.

when i play live, it's for the feel of the cards and chips.. sitting around chatting with other people and drinking.. electronic live poker is probably the lamest thing ive ever heard of

Re: Poll: would you sit at an electronic table at a B&M room?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Either choice still requires sitting near those people.

[/ QUOTE ]

ding ding ding

I'd say 7 out of 10 people who play live make me want to gouge my eyes out. Maybe if there was a rule that you couldn't talk while playing live poker it would be enjoyable.

Re: Poll: would you sit at an electronic table at a B&M room?
 

When this first came up, like a year ago (has it really been that long???), I was appalled like most everyone else here.

Over time, I've not only become less appalled, but more open to the concept.

Before all of the dealers go off on me (my husband being one of them), this has less to do with tipping than you think.

Re: Poll: would you sit at an electronic table at a B&M room?
 

I wouldn't touch one of those things, personally. As has already been stated, I have plenty of online accounts to keep me busy, and I don't have to burn gas to fire up Party Poker.

HOWEVER, the previous poster who stated that the machines may catch on in locales that only allow machine gaming is onto something. I worked for a few months at the Harrah's in Cherokee, NC, where only video gaming is allowed. People came from all around to play electronic blackjack and video craps. Video CRAPS, of all things, made a killing.

These things could serve a niche market, although you won't catch me dead either playing on one or investing in this company.

Re: Poll: would you sit at an electronic table at a B&M room?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Either choice still requires sitting near those people.

[/ QUOTE ]

ding ding ding

I'd say 7 out of 10 people who play live make me want to gouge my eyes out. Maybe if there was a rule that you couldn't talk while playing live poker it would be enjoyable.

[/ QUOTE ]

agreed. although sometimes listening to the donkies really cracks me up. actually, rarely. god bless my ipod.

Re: Poll: would you sit at an electronic table at a B&M room?
 

I played a SnG on one, once at Hard Rock in Hollywood Fla.

Overall experience -- the machine is a bit of a PITA. Give me a flesh and blood dealer please. That being said, if I was desparate for a game, and the wait looked like much more than a half an hour for a real dealer, I'd at least consider it again.

Re: Poll: would you sit at an electronic table at a B&M room?
 

at my local cardroom, winstar casino, the wait is typically at least 1 hour...if you're lucky. they recently installed 4 of these tables, and i played one prior to getting a seat in a real game.

i think some people are missing some of the benefits to the machines.
1. some people who don't know any better come to a b&m room to get interaction from real people. while people say they'd rather just sit at home on the comp if they don't have chips, you're missing the point of there actually being real people sitting around you.
2. the guy talking about collusion might not realize there actually is a call floor button on the machine, and there is a guy not 20 ft away from the tables.
3. at my casino, the lowest live limit is 4/8, but you can play 1/2 on the machines...this allows some people to play at a more comfortable level. also, for the poker newbies, this allows you to get a feel for the game without having to look like a total donk at the live table.
4. adding to the live peole thing, you actually can still pick up tells on people rather easily at these things. it takes away some tells like how they may throw their chips in the pot, but adds others like how they hit the bet or check button etc.

having said all that, i don't really like the things. as i see it, it's just a way to keep the fishies happy. however, if you want to find the softest games, you know where to look.

one last note....i wonder how much they had to pay chan and dolly to endorse these bad boys. you know there's no way in hell that chan is playing the 1k/2k at a video machine.

[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] mflo

Re: Poll: would you sit at an electronic table at a B&M room?
 

[ QUOTE ]
What's the third player gonna do? Push the "call floor" button and hope they have a microphone in the table? It could turn into a real nightmare.

[/ QUOTE ]

I assume there would be a microphone for just this occasion.

Re: Poll: would you sit at an electronic table at a B&M room?
 

i guess im in the very few who would like these things. true, if i wanted to play electronic poker i could just play at home, but there just isnt the same kind of action that there is live, and most of those live players will never be online. if this would do something to lower the brutal rake at the LA card clubs, and make those donks play 80 or more hands an hour it would be totally worth it, ESPECIALLY for omaha. Live limit O/8 is dealt so slow live its not even worth playing at low stakes, but if the hands/hr could get bumped up to even 40-50, it would be a gold mine. Although I'd hate to see dealers lose their jobs and me have no chips to play with, I think overall it would make up for it in $/hr.

Re: Poll: would you sit at an electronic table at a B&M room?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I played a SnG on one, once at Hard Rock in Hollywood Fla.

Overall experience -- the machine is a bit of a PITA. Give me a flesh and blood dealer please. That being said, if I was desparate for a game, and the wait looked like much more than a half an hour for a real dealer, I'd at least consider it again.

[/ QUOTE ]

how much faster was it? if at all

Re: Poll: would you sit at an electronic table at a B&M room?
 

[ QUOTE ]
$30+$10 NLHE tournament

[/ QUOTE ]

Holy [censored] that's a vig

Re: Poll: would you sit at an electronic table at a B&M room?
 

[ QUOTE ]
how much faster was it? if at all

[/ QUOTE ]

It took the players a bit longer than average to futz with the betting options on the machine, but the dealing was a bit faster, so it's probably break even.

Re: Poll: would you sit at an electronic table at a B&M room?
 

This idea combines the worst aspects of online & B&M: You don't have the convenience of playing in your own home, and you don't even get to feel chips in your hand or look at/talk to/socialize with other players. I would rather have a laptop in my hotel room and play online than do this.

Re: Poll: would you sit at an electronic table at a B&M room?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
$30+$10 NLHE tournament

[/ QUOTE ]

Holy [censored] that's a vig

[/ QUOTE ]

When you're the only game in town, you can charge usurious rates and get away with it. The dog tracks around Tampa charge $13 vig on $32 entry fee.

And btw - the tournament ran SLOWER than a cards and chips tournament, since the machine requires you to double-click to confirm an action, and no one could get the hang of it.

I was bored and freerolling, so I won't be playing it again.

Re: Poll: would you sit at an electronic table at a B&M room?
 

[ QUOTE ]
HOWEVER, the previous poster who stated that the machines may catch on in locales that only allow machine gaming is onto something. I worked for a few months at the Harrah's in Cherokee, NC, where only video gaming is allowed.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I live near Cherokee, NC, and if they installed a poker room of these tables, then I'd probably find my way over there pretty regularily. I'd prefer it if they let the players use chips instead of electronic money, like they do in the electronic blackjack pit there. And I'd prefer regular old cards and chips even more.

B.

Re: Poll: would you sit at an electronic table at a B&M room?
 

I just heard that these had been installed at my local casino, which had previously been just slots and blackjack. There had been talk of adding poker for a while, so I was disappointed when I heard that they went with the electronic tables, but it makes some sense because I doubt they'll be able to keep games going very regularly except during the summer tourist season. Even so, it's less than 5 minutes from my parents' house, so I'll give it a shot sometime. I'm thinking that if I had more shorthanded experience, this place could be a goldmine. I was happy to hear a couple of days ago that they still plan to open 4 tables with actual dealers in a week or so, but I wouldn't be surprised if the electronic tables are the only options during the dead times.

I haven't tried the electonic tables yet, but FWIW, I voted live dealers. I hate the slow pace of live play and I usually get bored relatively quickly. I still enjoy it enough to play live every so often though. Part of the fun of it is playing with real chips and cards. If I can't get that, I'd rather stay at home and play 250 hands/hr instead of 30. I'll still give the electronic tables a try, but I don't expect to like it too much.