Theoretical T55 scenario
 

lets say you're playing 6max and preflop its all limped around with 2 folders, say the sb and utg.

The flop comes T55 rainbow

now I'm curious how you would play this hand with JJ versus AT. Would you play the two differently at all?

Re: Theoretical T55 scenario
 

Why are we limping those? Where are we relative to position? From the blinds I probably check/call and lead or checkraise the flop in both instances. With position checked to me sometimes I bet sometimes I check behind. If nobody has a 5 I'm almost definitely good right now, and checking allows a weaker ten or a 5 to bet on the turn. If bet into on the flop with position I probably just call in both cases. Could advocate raising though since you'll find out right away if anyone coldcalls where you stand. It really depends on alot of factors.

Re: Theoretical T55 scenario
 

I understand it depends on a lot of factors. I'm not interested in what you would do, I'm interested in whether there is a difference between what you would do with JJ and AT.

See what I'm asking? If you would do the same thing with JJ and AT in every scenario then you would answer: "I would always do the same thing". If there is a scenario where you would do something different then please give me that scenario.

Re: Theoretical T55 scenario
 

In that case I guess I play them the same way. Jacks are basically TPTK here, and I'm not trying to play a big pot in either case.

Re: Theoretical T55 scenario
 

I'd play JJ harder cuz I got one extra hand I can beat

Re: Theoretical T55 scenario
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'd play JJ harder cuz I got one extra hand I can beat

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ok, but try to imagine some scenarios. In most cases if you run into any resistance you're going to play JJ the same way you would play AT right?

Re: Theoretical T55 scenario
 

I'm really curious to get a couple more replies. Honestly it seems to me that these two hands should play almost identically.

Re: Theoretical T55 scenario
 

I can't imagine you'd play them much differently.

JJ and AT are almost equivalent in value except for one detail. AT has more outs to improve. AT also is more likely to win a split pot. Otherwise they are effectively the same.

Since a difference of 2 definitely clean outs (JJ) to 2 clean outs and 3 tainted outs (AT) is very very small and rarely will make a difference in any equity calculations, I think I'd play them very similarly.

Re: Theoretical T55 scenario
 

A few other things.

Since the two hands play very differently preflop, it's unreasonable to assume that they will reach the flop in the same way. Since every hand is always affected by the action in the earlier rounds, this could significantly change the way the hand is played on the flop.

Second, although minor, the cards in your hand give you limited information about the possible hand ranges of your opponents. If you're getting resistence from another player, his range of Ax hands is more likely if you're holding jacks. Conversely, KK, QQ, and JJ are relatively more likely when you're playing AT.

Re: Theoretical T55 scenario
 

[ QUOTE ]
A few other things.

Since the two hands play very differently preflop, it's unreasonable to assume that they will reach the flop in the same way. Since every hand is always affected by the action in the earlier rounds, this could significantly change the way the hand is played on the flop.

Second, although minor, the cards in your hand give you limited information about the possible hand ranges of your opponents. If you're getting resistence from another player, his range of Ax hands is more likely if you're holding jacks. Conversely, KK, QQ, and JJ are relatively more likely when you're playing AT.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fair enough. BUT. I think the point is, if you choose any flop scenario you want. ANY SCENARIO AT ALL. Do these hands play almost identically?

I think the answer is yes.